Anyone know the amps that the stock horn pulls?
I'm installing the AutoLoc ooogah horn which is 3 amp.
Thanks
Full Version: horn - amps
Don't know what the amperage is, I am from the stone age, but the aaoogah horn does not heat either the wires or the switch... At least not on mine.
QUOTE (flyin-gators @ Jul 11 2007, 07:14 PM) 
Anyone know the amps that the stock horn pulls?
I'm installing the AutoLoc ooogah horn which is 3 amp.
Thanks
I'm installing the AutoLoc ooogah horn which is 3 amp.
Thanks
Amps! We don't need no stinkin' amps!
Believe me, it won't blow your fuses if properly wired. Hooks right into where the original horn wires was hooked up, and will work just fine for no longer than what the average horn blowing episode is. I had to make a pair of extension wires for mine, as the original wires were too stretched to reach the contacts properly, but no problems so far with it. I was going to hook up some loom covering on the wires or shrink tubing to give it a more finished look, but I'm just too lazy an old fart to mess with it. Besides, they say never muck with it if it ain't broken, right?
Huey
QUOTE (Huey @ Jul 11 2007, 08:25 PM)
Amps! We don't need no stinkin' amps!
Believe me, it won't blow your fuses if properly wired. Hooks right into where the original horn wires was hooked up, and will work just fine for no longer than what the average horn blowing episode is. I had to make a pair of extension wires for mine, as the original wires were too stretched to reach the contacts properly, but no problems so far with it. I was going to hook up some loom covering on the wires or shrink tubing to give it a more finished look, but I'm just too lazy an old fart to mess with it. Besides, they say never muck with it if it ain't broken, right?
Huey
Believe me, it won't blow your fuses if properly wired. Hooks right into where the original horn wires was hooked up, and will work just fine for no longer than what the average horn blowing episode is. I had to make a pair of extension wires for mine, as the original wires were too stretched to reach the contacts properly, but no problems so far with it. I was going to hook up some loom covering on the wires or shrink tubing to give it a more finished look, but I'm just too lazy an old fart to mess with it. Besides, they say never muck with it if it ain't broken, right?
Huey
Howdy!
Blown fuses and heated wiring is only part of the problem here; there's something else to be considered.
I'd use a relay to protect the horn button from the effects of the inductive kick of the oogah horn's motor windings. Any time you include an inductor (coil) in a circuit and switch it, it promotes a bigger spark at the switch contacts that eats them alive. Motor windings are a form of inductor.
True, a relay has a coil too... but the coil current is so small in comparison to a motor winding's demands that the total energy in the relay coil's spark is insignificant.
GAVNO
QUOTE (GAVNO @ Jul 12 2007, 11:00 AM)
QUOTE (Huey @ Jul 11 2007, 08:25 PM)
Amps! We don't need no stinkin' amps!
Believe me, it won't blow your fuses if properly wired. Hooks right into where the original horn wires was hooked up, and will work just fine for no longer than what the average horn blowing episode is. I had to make a pair of extension wires for mine, as the original wires were too stretched to reach the contacts properly, but no problems so far with it. I was going to hook up some loom covering on the wires or shrink tubing to give it a more finished look, but I'm just too lazy an old fart to mess with it. Besides, they say never muck with it if it ain't broken, right?
Huey
Howdy!
Blown fuses and heated wiring is only part of the problem here; there's something else to be considered.
I'd use a relay to protect the horn button from the effects of the inductive kick of the oogah horn's motor windings. Any time you include an inductor (coil) in a circuit and switch it, it promotes a bigger spark at the switch contacts that eats them alive. Motor windings are a form of inductor.
True, a relay has a coil too... but the coil current is so small in comparison to a motor winding's demands that the total energy in the relay coil's spark is insignificant.
GAVNO
How would I go about doing this and where do I get it? I have never done this sort of thing but if explained for an elementary electrical guy I could most likely handle it.
The manufacturer claimes that there is a relay built into the thing. I don't know if there actually is or not, but when I got mine, that was what I was told. Never blew a fuse or fried anything so far. Of course, I don't lay on the thing for long periods of time either when using it.
QUOTE (GAVNO @ Jul 12 2007, 11:00 AM)
I'd use a relay to protect the horn button from the effects of the inductive kick of the oogah horn's motor windings. Any time you include an inductor (coil) in a circuit and switch it, it promotes a bigger spark at the switch contacts that eats them alive. Motor windings are a form of inductor.
GAVNO
GAVNO
QUOTE (Huey @ Jul 12 2007, 11:49 AM)
The manufacturer claimes that there is a relay built into the thing. I don't know if there actually is or not, but when I got mine, that was what I was told. Never blew a fuse or fried anything so far. Of course, I don't lay on the thing for long periods of time either when using it.
Howdy, Huey
It's not a matter of how long you hold the horn button down; assuming the horn's current draw is reasonable, that's not what kills the switch contacts in this case. The damage is done when the switch is opened after using the horn.
Here's what happens...
When you hit the horn button, there's a big current surge into the horn's motor. What happens is the battery is building up a magnetic field in the motor's iron stator and armature. It's so fast that you probably wouldn't see it on a voltmeter (you'd need an oscilloscope to observe it clearly), but the voltage drops to nearly zero, while the current flow gets HUGE (probably hundreds of amperes) for a few microseconds.
Once a stable magnetic field has been established in the motor windings and iron, the current draw drops to normal and voltage comes back up to normal. So far, everything's OK.
Once the magnetic field reaches equlibrium, you can hold down the button all day long and not do very much damage.
Letting go of the horn button is where things get interesting.
When you let go of the button, the magnetic field in the coil and the armature and stator iron suddenly collapses back into the iron. When it does, voltage is induced in the motor windings; the current flow in the coil is almost zero, but the VOLTAGE goes sky high as the magnetic energy is converted back into electricity... and it does it FAST. As the switch contacts in the button move apart, the voltage is high enough to jump the gap between them; it can amount to several thousand volts for a few microseconds. The spark is HOT... VERY HOT. It overheats the surface of the contacts slightly each time it happens. As they overheat they oxidize. Most oxides are poor conductors of electricity, and they add resistance. The next time you hit the switch, that resistance causes MORE heat at the contacts; it's a vicious cycle that causes the contacts to get more and more cruddy.
Eventually when you hit the button one of two things happens; either the contacts weld together, or (more likely) they burn to the point that they won't conduct electricity worth a damn.
Personally, the disassembly of the handlebar grip to replace the switch is a bit of Ural maintenance I don't want to become familiar with... the job looks like a cast iron bitch. Thus, the use of a relay, which requires a LOT LESS total energy to pull in; the motor surges wind up burning the relay's contacts instead of the horn button contacts, but that's good; it's a hell of a lot easer to swap out a relay than it is to tear apart the grip. If the relay contacts are big enough (and they usually are). they may last 100 times longer than the horn button contacts would in the same situation.
Hope I didn't confuse or bore you too much, but ya gotta remember; I make my living as an electronics technician / broadcast engineer, and us nerds talk like that a LOT!
GAVNO
QUOTE (GAVNO @ Jul 12 2007, 07:46 PM)
QUOTE (Huey @ Jul 12 2007, 11:49 AM)
The manufacturer claimes that there is a relay built into the thing. I don't know if there actually is or not, but when I got mine, that was what I was told. Never blew a fuse or fried anything so far. Of course, I don't lay on the thing for long periods of time either when using it.
Howdy, Huey
It's not a matter of how long you hold the horn button down; assuming the horn's current draw is reasonable, that's not what kills the switch contacts in this case. The damage is done when the switch is opened after using the horn.
Here's what happens...
When you hit the horn button, there's a big current surge into the horn's motor. What happens is the battery is building up a magnetic field in the motor's iron stator and armature. It's so fast that you probably wouldn't see it on a voltmeter (you'd need an oscilloscope to observe it clearly), but the voltage drops to nearly zero, while the current flow gets HUGE (probably hundreds of amperes) for a few microseconds.
Once a stable magnetic field has been established in the motor windings and iron, the current draw drops to normal and voltage comes back up to normal. So far, everything's OK.
Once the magnetic field reaches equlibrium, you can hold down the button all day long and not do very much damage.
Letting go of the horn button is where things get interesting.
When you let go of the button, the magnetic field in the coil and the armature and stator iron suddenly collapses back into the iron. When it does, voltage is induced in the motor windings; the current flow in the coil is almost zero, but the VOLTAGE goes sky high as the magnetic energy is converted back into electricity... and it does it FAST. As the switch contacts in the button move apart, the voltage is high enough to jump the gap between them; it can amount to several thousand volts for a few microseconds. The spark is HOT... VERY HOT. It overheats the surface of the contacts slightly each time it happens. As they overheat they oxidize. Most oxides are poor conductors of electricity, and they add resistance. The next time you hit the switch, that resistance causes MORE heat at the contacts; it's a vicious cycle that causes the contacts to get more and more cruddy.
Eventually when you hit the button one of two things happens; either the contacts weld together, or (more likely) they burn to the point that they won't conduct electricity worth a damn.
Personally, the disassembly of the handlebar grip to replace the switch is a bit of Ural maintenance I don't want to become familiar with... the job looks like a cast iron bitch. Thus, the use of a relay, which requires a LOT LESS total energy to pull in; the motor surges wind up burning the relay's contacts instead of the horn button contacts, but that's good; it's a hell of a lot easer to swap out a relay than it is to tear apart the grip. If the relay contacts are big enough (and they usually are). they may last 100 times longer than the horn button contacts would in the same situation.
Hope I didn't confuse or bore you too much, but ya gotta remember; I make my living as an electronics technician / broadcast engineer, and us nerds talk like that a LOT!
GAVNO
Hey GAVNO,
I want to install an oogah horn on my Patrol, so I appreciate your info re: the dynamics of horn electronics. Here's the question: Should I connect the horn directly to the battery, using another switch and relay? I sure don't favor messing with the factory switch on the bike!
Thanks for your advice on this situation!
Gavno, Thank you for that tremendous explanation. It made a whole lot of sense for this guy, out of the gobledegook associated with electrics..
In conjunction to what you said, here is a site that explains the horn relay as well. Interesting site in other areas than just this particular one, but here is the horn relay 101, anyway.
http://www.rattlebars.com/mtz/hornrelay.html
I don't think the schematics actually cover the Ural with an ahooga horn, but adaptations are not that difficult to imagine in hooking it all up.
As a I said, I don't know if the thing has a built in relay or not. Person I got mine from said they do, but I don't have a clue.
On a different subject or two:
Check out the feet heaters idea and turn signal buzzers on the icons at the bottom of the page at this site. Gives some interesting ideas and how to info on such.
Huey
http://www.rattlebars.com/mtz/hornrelay.html
I don't think the schematics actually cover the Ural with an ahooga horn, but adaptations are not that difficult to imagine in hooking it all up.
As a I said, I don't know if the thing has a built in relay or not. Person I got mine from said they do, but I don't have a clue.
On a different subject or two:
Check out the feet heaters idea and turn signal buzzers on the icons at the bottom of the page at this site. Gives some interesting ideas and how to info on such.
Huey
And now a word from Ken who for technical reasons cannot post directly :
Ken wrote :
The latest string on the Russian Iron board has about 8 entries and as
yet, Nobody's got it right.
It's about the desirability of wiring the ahOOOgah horn directly from
the battery & including a horn relay. Says something like "horn -
relay" as the heading.
Since I can't post there, I beg you put in a brief post explaining that
the two wires that go to the FACTORY horn already go through a relay
(IF
we're talking about bikes that the wiring diagram for an '06 Patrol is
appropriate). The '06 Patrol wiring diagram I have shows the horn wire
coming from the headlight relay's 87a terminal.
I hooked mine up a couple days ago, figuring I'd done enough damn
research, and that the worst that could happen is (probably) a fried $4
relay, or blown fuse.
No problemo. Works a charm. VERY unique sound - attention-getting & L
O U D !
Thanks -
Ken
I don't know as I have only two old worthless Urals , a '94 and a '96 , neither one has any sort of relays on it .
I'd not be running a motor driven horn without a relay but this is *so* simple to discern : simply disconnect one wire off your current horn , turn on the key and press the button ~ either you'll hear a faint " click " or not ~ hear a click? you have a relay , stop mucking about on the 'puter and go mount up your horn .
No click but your horn worked until you disconnected it ? you don't have a relay , go get one , the tiny little ones sold by NAPA or found for FREE in any junked German or Swedish car will do fine as they all rated 30 or more amperes .
sheesh - much ado about nothing .
Ken wrote :
The latest string on the Russian Iron board has about 8 entries and as
yet, Nobody's got it right.
It's about the desirability of wiring the ahOOOgah horn directly from
the battery & including a horn relay. Says something like "horn -
relay" as the heading.
Since I can't post there, I beg you put in a brief post explaining that
the two wires that go to the FACTORY horn already go through a relay
(IF
we're talking about bikes that the wiring diagram for an '06 Patrol is
appropriate). The '06 Patrol wiring diagram I have shows the horn wire
coming from the headlight relay's 87a terminal.
I hooked mine up a couple days ago, figuring I'd done enough damn
research, and that the worst that could happen is (probably) a fried $4
relay, or blown fuse.
No problemo. Works a charm. VERY unique sound - attention-getting & L
O U D !
Thanks -
Ken
I don't know as I have only two old worthless Urals , a '94 and a '96 , neither one has any sort of relays on it .
I'd not be running a motor driven horn without a relay but this is *so* simple to discern : simply disconnect one wire off your current horn , turn on the key and press the button ~ either you'll hear a faint " click " or not ~ hear a click? you have a relay , stop mucking about on the 'puter and go mount up your horn .
No click but your horn worked until you disconnected it ? you don't have a relay , go get one , the tiny little ones sold by NAPA or found for FREE in any junked German or Swedish car will do fine as they all rated 30 or more amperes .
sheesh - much ado about nothing .
QUOTE (GAVNO @ Jul 12 2007, 06:46 PM)
QUOTE (Huey @ Jul 12 2007, 11:49 AM)
The manufacturer claimes that there is a relay built into the thing. I don't know if there actually is or not, but when I got mine, that was what I was told. Never blew a fuse or fried anything so far. Of course, I don't lay on the thing for long periods of time either when using it.
Howdy, Huey
It's not a matter of how long you hold the horn button down; assuming the horn's current draw is reasonable, that's not what kills the switch contacts in this case. The damage is done when the switch is opened after using the horn.
Here's what happens...
When you hit the horn button, there's a big current surge into the horn's motor. What happens is the battery is building up a magnetic field in the motor's iron stator and armature. It's so fast that you probably wouldn't see it on a voltmeter (you'd need an oscilloscope to observe it clearly), but the voltage drops to nearly zero, while the current flow gets HUGE (probably hundreds of amperes) for a few microseconds.
Once a stable magnetic field has been established in the motor windings and iron, the current draw drops to normal and voltage comes back up to normal. So far, everything's OK.
Once the magnetic field reaches equlibrium, you can hold down the button all day long and not do very much damage.
Letting go of the horn button is where things get interesting.
When you let go of the button, the magnetic field in the coil and the armature and stator iron suddenly collapses back into the iron. When it does, voltage is induced in the motor windings; the current flow in the coil is almost zero, but the VOLTAGE goes sky high as the magnetic energy is converted back into electricity... and it does it FAST. As the switch contacts in the button move apart, the voltage is high enough to jump the gap between them; it can amount to several thousand volts for a few microseconds. The spark is HOT... VERY HOT. It overheats the surface of the contacts slightly each time it happens. As they overheat they oxidize. Most oxides are poor conductors of electricity, and they add resistance. The next time you hit the switch, that resistance causes MORE heat at the contacts; it's a vicious cycle that causes the contacts to get more and more cruddy.
Eventually when you hit the button one of two things happens; either the contacts weld together, or (more likely) they burn to the point that they won't conduct electricity worth a damn.
Personally, the disassembly of the handlebar grip to replace the switch is a bit of Ural maintenance I don't want to become familiar with... the job looks like a cast iron bitch. Thus, the use of a relay, which requires a LOT LESS total energy to pull in; the motor surges wind up burning the relay's contacts instead of the horn button contacts, but that's good; it's a hell of a lot easer to swap out a relay than it is to tear apart the grip. If the relay contacts are big enough (and they usually are). they may last 100 times longer than the horn button contacts would in the same situation.
Hope I didn't confuse or bore you too much, but ya gotta remember; I make my living as an electronics technician / broadcast engineer, and us nerds talk like that a LOT!
GAVNO
Yup- a relay in the horn circuit will definatly prolong the life of the switch.... but an easier way to protect the switch contacts from the inductive spike is to connect a capacitor across the horn motor to ground. This will keep the contacts from arcing just like in a breaker point ignition. You can also include a small bleeder resistor in parallel with the capacitor to give the energy somewhere to go.
[quote name='PeteT' date='Jul 13 2007, 09:32 PM' post='85767']
[/quote]
Yup- a relay in the horn circuit will definatly prolong the life of the switch.... but an easier way to protect the switch contacts from the inductive spike is to connect a capacitor across the horn motor to ground. This will keep the contacts from arcing just like in a breaker point ignition. You can also include a small bleeder resistor in parallel with the capacitor to give the energy somewhere to go.
[/quote]
Howdy, Pete.
Yep, a snubber cap to swallow the back EMF spike would work and be simpler, but remember that snubbers have an optimum value for every value of inductance; a cap substitution box and scope to find it comes to mind... so ironically this is a case where the more complicated engineering (a relay) becomes simpler!
A bleeder isn't necessary; the motor itself acts as a bleeder.
GAVNO
[/quote]
Yup- a relay in the horn circuit will definatly prolong the life of the switch.... but an easier way to protect the switch contacts from the inductive spike is to connect a capacitor across the horn motor to ground. This will keep the contacts from arcing just like in a breaker point ignition. You can also include a small bleeder resistor in parallel with the capacitor to give the energy somewhere to go.
[/quote]
Howdy, Pete.
Yep, a snubber cap to swallow the back EMF spike would work and be simpler, but remember that snubbers have an optimum value for every value of inductance; a cap substitution box and scope to find it comes to mind... so ironically this is a case where the more complicated engineering (a relay) becomes simpler!
A bleeder isn't necessary; the motor itself acts as a bleeder.
GAVNO
[quote name='stickyvalve' date='Jul 12 2007, 09:14 PM' post='85707']
[/quote]
Hey GAVNO,
I want to install an oogah horn on my Patrol, so I appreciate your info re: the dynamics of horn electronics. Here's the question: Should I connect the horn directly to the battery, using another switch and relay? I sure don't favor messing with the factory switch on the bike!
Thanks for your advice on this situation!
[/quote]
Howdy!
Yep, that's the way I'm going to be doing it on MY bike; I have a weakness for oogah horns too!
As a safety measure, I'm adding an in-line fuse holder in the horn's hot lead... maybe a 3 or 4 amp fuse.... just in case.
Gavno
[/quote]
Hey GAVNO,
I want to install an oogah horn on my Patrol, so I appreciate your info re: the dynamics of horn electronics. Here's the question: Should I connect the horn directly to the battery, using another switch and relay? I sure don't favor messing with the factory switch on the bike!
Thanks for your advice on this situation!
[/quote]
Howdy!
Yep, that's the way I'm going to be doing it on MY bike; I have a weakness for oogah horns too!
As a safety measure, I'm adding an in-line fuse holder in the horn's hot lead... maybe a 3 or 4 amp fuse.... just in case.
Gavno
Hi All,
For a 12 volt snubber, I usually use a 1/2 watt 100 ohm resistor in series with a 1 amp diode. Just install the diode in the non-conducting direction. Works pretty well from 12 to 24 volts.
Nick
For a 12 volt snubber, I usually use a 1/2 watt 100 ohm resistor in series with a 1 amp diode. Just install the diode in the non-conducting direction. Works pretty well from 12 to 24 volts.
Nick
QUOTE (Wooden Nickel @ Jul 14 2007, 05:48 PM)
Hi All,
For a 12 volt snubber, I usually use a 1/2 watt 100 ohm resistor in series with a 1 amp diode. Just install the diode in the non-conducting direction. Works pretty well from 12 to 24 volts.
Nick
For a 12 volt snubber, I usually use a 1/2 watt 100 ohm resistor in series with a 1 amp diode. Just install the diode in the non-conducting direction. Works pretty well from 12 to 24 volts.
Nick
Ah.... I smell ANOTHER electronics nut on the board!
GAVNO
At LAST... a definitive answer to the original question!
I bought MY "oogah" horn today. Hooked up a 12 VDC bench supply, and an ammeter.
The answer is... 2.75 to 3.00 amperes.
GAVNO
I bought MY "oogah" horn today. Hooked up a 12 VDC bench supply, and an ammeter.
The answer is... 2.75 to 3.00 amperes.
GAVNO
QUOTE (VWNate1 @ Jul 13 2007, 09:14 PM)
Since I can't post there, I beg you put in a brief post explaining that
the two wires that go to the FACTORY horn already go through a relay
(IF
we're talking about bikes that the wiring diagram for an '06 Patrol is
appropriate). The '06 Patrol wiring diagram I have shows the horn wire
coming from the headlight relay's 87a terminal.
I hooked mine up a couple days ago, figuring I'd done enough damn
research, and that the worst that could happen is (probably) a fried $4
relay, or blown fuse.
No problemo. Works a charm. VERY unique sound - attention-getting & L
O U D !
Thanks -
.
the two wires that go to the FACTORY horn already go through a relay
(IF
we're talking about bikes that the wiring diagram for an '06 Patrol is
appropriate). The '06 Patrol wiring diagram I have shows the horn wire
coming from the headlight relay's 87a terminal.
I hooked mine up a couple days ago, figuring I'd done enough damn
research, and that the worst that could happen is (probably) a fried $4
relay, or blown fuse.
No problemo. Works a charm. VERY unique sound - attention-getting & L
O U D !
Thanks -
.
Ok, so if I interpret this correctly, and based on the research I have done on my electrical wiring diagram (which is close to the same level of my rusty spanish), the 2006 Ural Patrol has a Relay to the crappy Russian horn already? Man that would save me some happy time. I just bought the Fiamm Freeway blaster high and low tone horns....Designed to jerk the Surburban driving soccer mom away from putting her make up while drinking her latte to strict attention!!
My little Ural horn finally died after a year and a half (the 4th time I used it.)
I will try the relay checking click, maybe my realy bit the bullet!? Oh well, I'll still put on the Freeway blaster!! E
The 06 wiring diagram I have doesn't show the horn wiring going through a relay at all. Power to the horn comes directly from Fuse #3 (this also supplies power to the brake lights). One side of the horn switch goes directly to the horn and the other side of the horn switch is tied to chassis gnd (it is the same gnd point that the start switch uses).
I did test my 06 Tourist out and confirmed, there is no relay contacts involved in the operation of the horn.
Ok, so if I interpret this correctly, and based on the research I have done on my electrical wiring diagram (which is close to the same level of my rusty spanish), the 2006 Ural Patrol has a Relay to the crappy Russian horn already? Man that would save me some happy time. I just bought the Fiamm Freeway blaster high and low tone horns....Designed to jerk the Surburban driving soccer mom away from putting her make up while drinking her latte to strict attention!!
My little Ural horn finally died after a year and a half (the 4th time I used it.)
I will try the relay checking click, maybe my realy bit the bullet!? Oh well, I'll still put on the Freeway blaster!! E
I did test my 06 Tourist out and confirmed, there is no relay contacts involved in the operation of the horn.
QUOTE (sprintstrider @ Aug 10 2007, 01:57 AM)
QUOTE (VWNate1 @ Jul 13 2007, 09:14 PM)
Since I can't post there, I beg you put in a brief post explaining that
the two wires that go to the FACTORY horn already go through a relay
(IF
we're talking about bikes that the wiring diagram for an '06 Patrol is
appropriate). The '06 Patrol wiring diagram I have shows the horn wire
coming from the headlight relay's 87a terminal.
I hooked mine up a couple days ago, figuring I'd done enough damn
research, and that the worst that could happen is (probably) a fried $4
relay, or blown fuse.
No problemo. Works a charm. VERY unique sound - attention-getting & L
O U D !
Thanks -
.
the two wires that go to the FACTORY horn already go through a relay
(IF
we're talking about bikes that the wiring diagram for an '06 Patrol is
appropriate). The '06 Patrol wiring diagram I have shows the horn wire
coming from the headlight relay's 87a terminal.
I hooked mine up a couple days ago, figuring I'd done enough damn
research, and that the worst that could happen is (probably) a fried $4
relay, or blown fuse.
No problemo. Works a charm. VERY unique sound - attention-getting & L
O U D !
Thanks -
.
Ok, so if I interpret this correctly, and based on the research I have done on my electrical wiring diagram (which is close to the same level of my rusty spanish), the 2006 Ural Patrol has a Relay to the crappy Russian horn already? Man that would save me some happy time. I just bought the Fiamm Freeway blaster high and low tone horns....Designed to jerk the Surburban driving soccer mom away from putting her make up while drinking her latte to strict attention!!
My little Ural horn finally died after a year and a half (the 4th time I used it.)
I will try the relay checking click, maybe my realy bit the bullet!? Oh well, I'll still put on the Freeway blaster!! E
I just got my new Fiamm Freeway Blaster high and low pitch horn. I have a wiring schematic from Carl Allison 2006 and it says that the horn is attached to the headlight relay. When I press the horn button i hear no audible click. When I hook up one horn I get a sweet 18 wheeler horn. When I use the jumper harness to hook the 2 together I get clicking only from the horns....I need more power Scottie. Based on this inadequate power to the hrons I am going to assume no relay is mounted on my 2006, I know they changed sometime mid-year. I will have to go and get a relay and run directly off the battery as I think these guys use some serious power. I will also have to find some type of mount as the Ural mount does really aim them in the right direction.
Heres what i know for sure, I wish I knew how to do a cleaner job on my wiring....it works, but man it is not pretty.
Heres what i know for sure, I wish I knew how to do a cleaner job on my wiring....it works, but man it is not pretty.
For the electonically challanged, like me. If I were to put a more powerful horn on my 94 Tourist, do I just wire the relay inline on the positive wire connecting to the horn?
QUOTE (albuquralque @ Aug 13 2007, 12:25 PM)
The 06 wiring diagram I have doesn't show the horn wiring going through a relay at all. Power to the horn comes directly from Fuse #3 (this also supplies power to the brake lights). One side of the horn switch goes directly to the horn and the other side of the horn switch is tied to chassis gnd (it is the same gnd point that the start switch uses).
I did test my 06 Tourist out and confirmed, there is no relay contacts involved in the operation of the horn.
I did test my 06 Tourist out and confirmed, there is no relay contacts involved in the operation of the horn.
That sounds sucky. I'd find a blank slot or add one and split the horn off the lights by hooking into incoming power.
The only reason I can think of for having the horn and lights both downstream from the same fuse it that if the fuse blows then not having a horn will tell you that you have no lights either. However, if the horn shorts and blows the fuse you have no lights! I'd rather have no horn than no brake lights!
You can purchase relays from any auto store and use the power point in the car on late models to rig the horn, any horn. You can install a separate button between it and ground for the new install or use the existing wiring to splice into. You've got to have a real bugger of a horn to exceed 3 amps in most usage. Maybe stacking several might do it but at 2.5 amps or even 3 amps which is probably high for most horns you'd be able to run duals and have slack with a 10 amp fuse.
QUOTE (IVANGROZNEY @ Aug 14 2007, 06:51 PM)
For the electronically challenged, like me. If I were to put a more powerful horn on my 94 Tourist, do I just wire the relay inline on the positive wire connecting to the horn?
Have you tried just using your existing wiring and hooking the new horn to the old wiring and toss the Ural horn which is wimpy anyway.
If there is an existing relay it feeds that wire anyway.
The relay is basically a buffered switch for the appliance. Press button, activate relay (if installed) power flows to horn. Play with it. A tap should be sufficient to test the setup or you can drop a meter on it and check it to see what you've got. The alternator charges at 14 amps under load so if you pull 14amps on that wire then you're hooked into the positive side of the battery instead of through a relay usually. I haven't dissected the URAL wiring schematics yet but If I can find one then schematics all read the same way. It's not hard to trace wiring after you check the bike for codes.
Some appliances do use relays with inline fuses rather than being fused through the main block. I'm not familiar with whats under the seat of the Ural but bikes often mount electrics under the seat and on the back fender near the battery.
There's very nearly zip electronics on a Ural. Lots of electrics but few electronics which means little or no solid state black boxes. Electrics are durable and straightforward.
QUOTE (flyin-gators @ Jul 11 2007, 07:14 PM)
Anyone know the amps that the stock horn pulls?
I'm installing the AutoLoc ooogah horn which is 3 amp.
Thanks
I don't have an amp meter. I do have an ohm meter and my stock horn has 1.8 ohms resistance.I'm installing the AutoLoc ooogah horn which is 3 amp.
Thanks
So using ohm's law: voltage = current x resistance. And solving for current:
current = voltage/resistance. And substituting known values,voltage=12,resistance=1.8ohms.
current = 12volts/1.8ohms
current = 6.7 amps
There ya go, Vanman
I have had 3 electrical fires. One of them took out the whole harness (caused by a fix recomended by a dealer). It took me 5 months to get a new harness and 9 hours to put it in. I'd rather put up with a wimpy horn than just try something and see what happens.
Have you tried just using your existing wiring and hooking the new horn to the old wiring and toss the Ural horn which is wimpy anyway.
If there is an existing relay it feeds that wire anyway.
The relay is basically a buffered switch for the appliance. Press button, activate relay (if installed) power flows to horn. Play with it. A tap should be sufficient to test the setup or you can drop a meter on it and check it to see what you've got. The alternator charges at 14 amps under load so if you pull 14amps on that wire then you're hooked into the positive side of the battery instead of through a relay usually. I haven't dissected the URAL wiring schematics yet but If I can find one then schematics all read the same way. It's not hard to trace wiring after you check the bike for codes.
Some appliances do use relays with inline fuses rather than being fused through the main block. I'm not familiar with whats under the seat of the Ural but bikes often mount electrics under the seat and on the back fender near the battery.
There's very nearly zip electronics on a Ural. Lots of electrics but few electronics which means little or no solid state black boxes. Electrics are durable and straightforward.
QUOTE (Tomcat101147 @ Aug 14 2007, 09:28 PM)
QUOTE (IVANGROZNEY @ Aug 14 2007, 06:51 PM)
For the electronically challenged, like me. If I were to put a more powerful horn on my 94 Tourist, do I just wire the relay inline on the positive wire connecting to the horn?
Have you tried just using your existing wiring and hooking the new horn to the old wiring and toss the Ural horn which is wimpy anyway.
If there is an existing relay it feeds that wire anyway.
The relay is basically a buffered switch for the appliance. Press button, activate relay (if installed) power flows to horn. Play with it. A tap should be sufficient to test the setup or you can drop a meter on it and check it to see what you've got. The alternator charges at 14 amps under load so if you pull 14amps on that wire then you're hooked into the positive side of the battery instead of through a relay usually. I haven't dissected the URAL wiring schematics yet but If I can find one then schematics all read the same way. It's not hard to trace wiring after you check the bike for codes.
Some appliances do use relays with inline fuses rather than being fused through the main block. I'm not familiar with whats under the seat of the Ural but bikes often mount electrics under the seat and on the back fender near the battery.
There's very nearly zip electronics on a Ural. Lots of electrics but few electronics which means little or no solid state black boxes. Electrics are durable and straightforward.
QUOTE (IVANGROZNEY @ Aug 17 2007, 03:50 PM)
I have had 3 electrical fires. One of them took out the whole harness (caused by a fix recomended by a dealer). It took me 5 months to get a new harness and 9 hours to put it in. I'd rather put up with a wimpy horn than just try something and see what happens.
I'm very curious as to the nature of your 3 electrical fires. Can you elucidate further?
Overloading the wiring is one possibility, aging wiring with cracked insulation being a second and direct shorting a third.
Attaching a horn rated at 3 amps to wiring designed to carry a horn rated at 6 amps is unlikely to cause overheating and meltdown. A relay in the horn circuit is primarily to protect the switch gear rather than the horn. The relay shunts a lower voltage charge to the switch which then activates the full charge through to the horn to activate its motor, relay or oscillator to make it sound. The amperage varies to the switch as opposed to being the same at switch and horn.
I crawled all over a 2007 patrol today and found several fuses and relays not wired through the fuse block but instead wired with inline fuses. The system seems very well protected on the 2007 model but I have had no chance to examine an older model.
What caused your fires? Where did they start and did the system show any signs of past repair incorrectly or inadequately done?
I don't realy know, as I said before I am electonicaly challanged. The motor cut out, smoke was coming out from under the seat, it stopped smoking when I flipped the kill swithch under the seat. First time it happen the dealer told me just to repalce the burnt wires. Bad Idea. As soon as I flipped the kill swich back on the harness fried al the way to the head light faster than I could turn it off. The 3rd fire was symilar to the first. It was a long time ago but I do remember replacing the voltage regulator among other things. Since I had the bike remotored it no longer has a voltage regulator. There are relays where the voltage regulator used to go. The Russian regualors were bad so I had to bring it back the next week and they put in bosch regulators. In it's present state my wiring is "custom". Most of it is 94 vintage. The starter motor circut dose not pass thru the kill switch, the old swich is not big enought to handel it. There are several bundels of cut off an taped up wires under the seat. The "factory trained" Ural mechanic at the Motocycle Mall in Bellville hooked my denso up wrong. It took 2 experts at FART 2 hours to fix what he did and I'm not sure what they did. But I do want to mount a search light a better horn would be good to but that is not as important. I'v been running with no horn since BURP because I had to put the type 5 ignition there. I'll probably sort ot the wire extentions and mount for the horn tommorow because I have to get the bike inspected next month.
FWIW - I went out and got a Wolo Ooogah horn and installed it on the Tourtise. I also installed a separate relay just for the horn.
From the existing horn wiring - I took the (+) lead to one side of the coil of the relay and also to the (+) side of the horn. The gnd side of the existing horn wiring went to the other side of the relay coil. Next I wired frame gnd to the relay contact and the (-) side of the horn to the normally open contact of the relay.
Everything works great...nice and loud...and gets peoples attention.
From the existing horn wiring - I took the (+) lead to one side of the coil of the relay and also to the (+) side of the horn. The gnd side of the existing horn wiring went to the other side of the relay coil. Next I wired frame gnd to the relay contact and the (-) side of the horn to the normally open contact of the relay.
Everything works great...nice and loud...and gets peoples attention.
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