I was having a UDF experience a few months ago, and the guy who accosted me told me Ural is thinking about an 1100 cc motor for 2012. Is this just a hopeless dream or what?

Until the entire bottom end, top end, gearbox and final drive are redesigned to handle the increase in power from an 1100cc unit, I'd say yes, it's a hopeless dream. They're getting there, though, step by step - but a significant upgrade in engine size and performance is more than two years away, IMO. I think we'll see liquid cooling first, as a means of fighting off ever increasing emissions regs.

I believe over on the IMWA forum, Ilya shot down any ideas of a new power plant anytime in the near future. Fuel injection will be a reality before you see 1L. When that day comes, the power plant will more likely be off-the-shelf and something like a Rotex (<-----insert vomit emoticon here).

FI and generally better efficiency would be a better way to go IMHO.

The BMW engines have shown that more power is acheivable but not to the point of threatening the FD and gears.

A top end redesign to give a better combustion for the same or even less fuel, FI and possibly a different valve operation allowing for more RPM without the risk of valve damage, would be nice...

Agreed.

One must remember the limits of the rest of the package. I remember a picture of a ROTAX boxer motor from a microlight. I thought it would be nice to drop in an Ural. Later I got to thinking that ot would probably wind the frame up like a corkscrew.

There is a lot more to be got from the standard motor before one needs to think about a major redesign. A decent filter box that flows better and utilizes resonant effects together with a better exhaust that does the same would be the way to go. Match these with fuel injection and I think disc brakes all round might become essential. So there you see the problem because a stiffer frame would more than likely be necessary so things start to get prohibitively expensive.

The way I'd do it would be:

1. Plastic airbox with a decent filter. This could be cheaper than the present one to make and would be easier to shape to get the required volumes for utilisation of resonance. A straighter run for the air into the carbs would do wonders for the upper reaches of engine speed.

2. An exhaust system that has the header pipes feeding into a large 'expansion chamber' behind the gearbox where the present crossover pipe is. This would then feed into two silencers with a modern, computer aided, silencer design that doesn't restrict airflow at the same time as meeting noise and emission regulations. This would probably cost a lot more than the present system and weigh more too.

3. Fuel injection. More expensive but inevitable.

4. Stiffer frame made to the same design but using wider diameter tubing with any 'easy' strategic stiffening. For example a large box section spine. This would keep as many ancillary parts unchanged so reducing development costs. At the same time I'd fit Chang Jiang tanks (higher capacity and prettier) and headlight shell with the speedo in. Dies for these parts are already available as well as off-the-shelf stuff from China. I'd be inclined to use the M66/Dnepr jigs as they have nicer lines. I would say my Dnepr has superior handling to my Urals too.

5. 18" wheels and 3.89 gearing if a 5 speed box isn't already on the way. A modernised engine would more than likely have a wider spread of torque and more of it. This might mean that a 4 speed box would suffice.

I thought it sounded too good to be true. One change the factory might make would be to change the cylinder proportions. Right now it is a 'square' motor, bore and stroke being equal. I have a KLR650 and its stroke is about 83% of its bore and I think this contributes greatly to its fuel economy and performance. If there was a way to do that to the Ural, I think its fuel economy would improve dramatically. Another neat idea would be to find a way to turn it into a two-stroke

Can they get a two stroke to pass US emmisions? That's why we can't get Izh. I think dirt bikes have a less stringent standard.

They've been trying with 2-strokes for a while, but I haven't read anything lately about them. Bimota had the V-due sportbike in the late 90s which pretty much sunk the company. Honda had been working on the EXP-2 in 2002-2003 but I think they dropped it as 4-strokes got more popular in offroading. Both relied on fuel injection along with some inlet/exhaust trickery to get more complete combustion and cleaner exhaust. Probably at some point the additional tech needed to make it all work offset the lower weight and higher output of the 2-stroke.

Even for off-highway engines, emissions are putting the 2-stroke out of business. If I'm not mistaken, even lawnmowers and such won't meet California emissions soon with current 2-stroke technology.

This is the baby you want strapped in there...

http://www.aeroaventure.ca/Page.aspx?ID=3&Lang=2


Dub

Ahhhhh, the smell of burnt racing 2 stroke oil. memories of my reliable, comfortable and fast RD350, a dizzy 63BHP......LOL

1100cc Ural would make about the same power right?

Cheers

86 cu inches but ONLY 84 Hp peak ? I'd have to hot rod it first!

Instead of spending loads on a new design, perhaps they could get input or even buy engines from the likes of MotoGuzzi.

Mechanically, these have always been powerful and yet reliable engines, all the while retaining seemingly low levels of mechanical complexity...

V-twin note would be cool too!!

Lets see urals time line:
flash back to 2004 IMZ News letter

IMZ News
Well, the "Traveling Twelve" have returned from their two-week sojourn to Russia! A wonderful time was had by all.

During our visit at the factory, everyone was treated to a few surprises. The "Ural Scrambler" prototype was unveiled! What a bike it is too! With the factories history of off-road racing and sidecar dirt bike experience, they have brought back a sidecar bike that is truly meant for serious off road riding, whether on the forest trails or at the racetrack! This bike sports a "monkey" friendly sidecar platform, complete with pillion seat (with storage underneath), strategically placed grab-bars for aggressive "monkeying", leading-link front suspension with high fender and knobby tires all around. The controls are basic, no headlamp, turn signals or fancy chrome. We were all taken for a spin by Chief Designer, Alexander Strokin, who displayed the Scramblers quick torque, speed and agility. What a ride it was! Look forward to more on this new model in the not-to-distant future.

After our amazement with the Scrambler, we were all allowed to ride the new fuel-injected bike. Wow! Talk about performance improvement! Great response from the moment you twist the throttle, with power that is uncommon for our bikes. With the removal of the carburetors, foot room is no longer an issue at all. As the factory looks forward to the impending EPA standard changes, they are clearly on-track with the Bosch fuel-injection system. Expected release date is 2006. Just when we thought we had seen it all, out they bring another bike equipped with the new timing belt system. our minds were blown! As each of us test rode it, everyone was amazed at the lack of noise coming from the engine. This bodes well for the none-to-soon demise of the infamous timing gear/alternator system. Another expected release date of 2006.

All-in-all, the factory dazzled us with their significant strides in foresight and attacking and solving the major issues that have plagued the bikes for so long.

We were also able to see many of the 650 "Iraq" bikes being assembled side-by-side of the U.S. and European bikes. Standing alongside their more colorful counterparts, the "Iraqi Grays" in the final assembly shop gave sharp contrast between the markets.

Don't hold your breath

It aint broke..dont fix it... leave well enough alone...remember, the Camel is a Horse designed by a committee

Seriously, what would it take to convert the Ural motor to 2-stroke operation? Custom exhaust system, probably a new cam, and new pistons. What am I forgetting? Could it be done aftermarket? BTW, the Kawasaki Versys has a fuel-injected 650cc parallel twin motor in it. Perhaps the FI system could be retro-fitted to a Ural engine. Also, cutting down the jugs by 1.3 cm would give a bore/stroke ratio similar to the KLR650. Of course the heads would need to be modified too to keep the compression ratio reasonably high. I wish I had access to some older, cheaper, used Ural or Dnepr bikes/wrecks to tinker with .

Camshafts operate valves yet 2-strokes have none.... unless you mean something else

Where did you get this from? I am one of the "Traveling Twelve". We did not ride the Scrambler over there. It sounds like the Cross Bike. I rode it in South Carolina in 05. I had people line up to ride monkey because I could show them what it could realy do.

In Irbit we got to ride prototypes of a fuel injected Ural and a version that had a spin on oil filter plus belt drivin altinator that made it quieter. I did donuts in the parking lot on the fuel injected Ural. I rode on the sidewalks, they looked like conc drive ways. Did power slides and steered with the rear end because it was raining lightly and was easier to do than steer with the front end. They would not allow us to take pictures of the prototypes. Here is a picture of me at the factory with one of the bikes our group rented that Sid and I shared.

It would be fairly straightforward to convert the Ural motor to a blower-scavenged two-stroke. All you would need is a blower, MPFI system, new cams, and altered ignition timing. The trick would be timing the valve overlap, because you only want to have to do that once unless you like getting custom cams ground. The Ural already has catalytic converters so I don´t think emissions would be a problem. Where I live, there are no inspections, so it´s not an issue for me personally.

Certain two-stroke motors, like those common on older motorbikes, have flap valves actuated by the difference in pressure from one side to the other. Other two-strokes, like the motors on some Nazi-era aircraft, have no valves at all, just strategically positioned holes in the cylinder sleeve. The two-stroke diesels common in the USA in the 1970s and 80s had both cylinder-sleeve ports and poppet valves. This last type is most similar to the conversion that I am suggesting.

BTW, the Ural motor ain´t broke, but it´s definitely a design from a bygone era that could really use some updating. When I think about it, it´s an utterly ludicrous design with a million shortcomings and impracticalities, but the entire package that is the Ural sidecar motorcycle has unique value and utility and therein lies it´s charm.

Where did you get this from? I am one of the "Traveling Twelve". We did not ride the Scrambler over there. It sounds like the Cross Bike. I rode it in South Carolina in 05. I had people line up to ride monkey because I could show them what it could realy do.

In Irbit we got to ride prototypes of a fuel injected Ural and a version that had a spin on oil filter plus belt drivin altinator that made it quieter. I did donuts in the parking lot on the fuel injected Ural. I rode on the sidewalks, they looked like conc drive ways. Did power slides and steered with the rear end because it was raining lightly and was easier to do than steer with the front end. They would not allow us to take pictures of the prototypes. Here is a picture of me at the factory with one of the bikes our group rented that Sid and I shared.
[/quote]
Ken,
Came from the IMZ archives. I remember the pics of the blue scrambler in SC.
as for the engine in the above post. Tweak some things on the engine but that should be all. Add FI and run them till some EPA guy syays you can't anymore.

Lotsa smoke and pipe dreams....and a lota wishful thinking. Every one take a hop to the shoes of the powers that be at Ural and or Dnepr....Whats the market? Sadly wounded, everywhere in the world....EPA.....left wing liberals on the run.... So what is a good Russian Bike maker to do........

The thing that sunk the Corvair and the VW flat fours more that anything was trying to maintain a constant engine tempeture, doing so lets you micro manage mixtures and emmissions, wear, metal clearances, for instance, the piston to bore clearance is .004, take a 15 year old Yamaha snow machine piston, it is .0016 to .0018, less than half!

It also lets you gen up more power in the basic design, look what the Japs did with engine design to run away with the world of hot bikes....some one mentioned drive componets....Dnepr trannies are tough, they will handle more power up to 900-1000 cc, or a very enhanced 650-750 cc......diffs are about even for durability, better yet with the best lubes. To get more power, you always need more RPM, without blowing the berries off the buyer...a 1000 or 1200 more RPM would help....for Ural to buy up the Dnepr tranny patents, would make sence....

Reality check, Ural is in servival mode at this time , about like every one else. Some water cooled cylinders, maybe a three valve head, with the posibility of retrofits to older 650-750 would breath more life into the basic bike 2. fuel injection, would shoot the ears off EPA. 3. advances in aircleaner design, associated with the FI, now makes for a carb ice free induction system, peps it up some more..... One thing to keep in mind is that Ural really has no competition in the bike/side hack world, They are not going to throw money blindly away to get 10-15 more mph from a rig, they cannot, like a record maker, remaster the whole package.

History, like the green Bay Packers (yeah) who start every game with a plan, so does Ural, They have slowly improved the package over the decades, some things from 1941 still fit the new models, there ain't a dammed thing on a Ford or Chevy that will do that! That is their history, I doubt that this philosphy will alter course much, we may wish for it here, but the rest of the world is still a big market for standard Urals, and pop culture pipe dreams will not fly there

While we all do the dream things, this is the way I see it......Ken

Usually don't in a motorcycle application. They certainly can.

Blower scavenged two stroke.......you won't be using a kickstart then!

Why not just buy the rights for the Dnepr Dynamit motor? Come to think of it why not buy the rights to all the Dnepr stuff? Mostly better designed than Ural stuff, all you have to do is MAKE it better.

There, that should liven things up.

I would love to buy the whole factory and ship it to Mexico and make Urals there, but buying just the one bike sort of cleaned me out. Maybe if all of you guys sent me $1000 each or something ...

I think the Ural makes plenty of power even for use on superhighways, it is just the fuel economy that gets me down. It would be great to get it to do 17 km per litre. Currently, I have to fill mine up every 180 km or so. Very annoying and expensive!

You've ALL missed it completely.....


The IMWA prototype 1.5L compression-start DIESEL boxer should be ready to ship to my U.S. testing program by early summer of 2010 if the schedule is being maintained by Ilya Khait at Irbit. I think there was a bit of a delay in getting the 5x19" wheels machined and possibly the viscous coupler units for the cross-shaft to differential union. I might be mistaken on some of that.

I should be back at the garage at approximately the correct date to begin the long term testing protocols.
Stay tuned, cuz this one has been in the works for over a decade .....

My good best buddy Ilya won't forget us THIS year !!





nevermind

;-)
kermitski
of the desert

Oh, you are in SO much trouble for spilling the beans, mister... I hereby sever any and all connections I've ever had with you, Mr Big Mouth. I am not going down in flames with you.

Um... and what would be wrong with having them made in Canada?

Nothing at all, Mike - you guys are practically Russians anyway, geographically speaking.



Dublinski

A Russian bike made in Mexico ..............the mind reels.


I hear there's space available in the Buell plant.

Ouch!

Mexico gets my vote, as it would guarantee free delivery in the US by 11 or more undocumented
Mexican immigrants. No wait for the bike to clear customs nor any shipping fees.

Flural

OMG! Don't joke about that stuff! That's just mean! I would build the bikes in Mexico because that's where I am right now and it is MUCH nicer than the Ottawa Valley this time of year, plus I want to live here and I need some kind of job to do that.

Just thinking about Urals current fiscal situation ... I am guessing they build the entire bike under one roof. What if they farmed out some of the components to exisiting aftermarket suppliers, stuff like the handlebars, tires, etc. Then they could offer a wider range of custom options and probably save money too.

That's what they do now. Paoli forks, Brembo brakes, Ducati ignition, Denso alternator, Herzog gears...

Ustabe that Ural (or maybe it was Dnepr) did make everything for their bikes, all the way down to the nuts, bolts and rubber.