A couple of days ago,in a little village called hirwaun,just up the road from me, the police anti-terrorist squad raided a little house a couple of doors up
from the local pub.they dragged out a little man called Trevor.they rushed him to london,and no-one seems to know what's happened to him.
the police said that he's not linked to alquaeda or any european terrorist cell.So why did they arrest him,and where has he gone?
very suspicious!
ride safe and free,martyn,aberdare.

A 58-year-old man from south Wales is to appear in court charged with soliciting murder and offences under the Terrorism Act, say police.

He was arrested in Hirwaun, Rhondda Cynon Taf, last week and taken to west Yorkshire for questioning.

He also faces a charge of using threatening abusive or insulting words likely to stir up racial hatred.

Another man, 42, from Leigh, Greater Manchester is also charged. They are to appear in court at Westminster later.

The 58-year-old man is also charged with possession of records containing information likely to be useful to a person committing or preparing an act of terrorism contrary to Section 58 of the Terrorism Act 2000 and disseminating a terrorist publication contrary to Section 2 under the Terrorism Act 2006.

http://forums.walesonline.co.uk/viewtopic....f=5&t=12872

Cheers,

This " Terrorism" threat has certainly been used to foist draconian legislation on the public at large. The words in the law; " likely to stir up " and " likely to be useful to" are so wide open to abuse that it's a joke. I am not commenting on the guilt or otherwise of the case, but the laws being used certainly are a cause for concern. The voters need to stop this type of rot and stealing of basic civil liberties disguised as "terrorist legislation".

Ofcourse he is guilty, well if he is Welsh anyway...................oops

Anyway, The British Police are so closly scrutinised now that they cannot afford to arrest someone without some form of intelligence/evidence.

And my honest opinion is that if some innocent people get to spend a few nights in a cell for the greater good so be it.
I for one would not like the Police/intelligence/Military to down tools because a few do-gooders got upset. I dont believe that the law makers are trying to steal our civil rights,
but are trying to preserve them the best way they can given the circumstances.

The terrorists groups are the source of any loss of civil rights in the West. If the fight isnt taken to them, they will certainly bring it to us. examples not required.

Just my 2p and 2.2 eurocents worth....

Cheers

The Sons of Glendower making a comeback perhaps?





Dub

i would like to know what this has to do with Russian iron were they riding Urals or my be being chased on a Dnepr .

The war on terror is a convienient way for governments world wide to erode our civil liberties. They know the populace at large are sheep who will gladly give these up for the illusion of saftey.

In this country the founding fathers are rolling in their graves.

Hello neil,hello jules,thanks for the info,i was suprised when i mentioned it in the pub last night-nobody knew anything,some know trevor-he's basically harmless,but saying that, he's a cardiff city football supporter-they are all nuts!!
Got a little story for you:there's a gentleman and his wife,i found out,living either in glyneath,or neath-both not far away, they have his and hers ural rigs.
anyway,the bloke has a military rig complete with replica m/c gun mounted on.he goes to displays etc.one day while resting in his farmhouse,a bull-horn blares out-someone reported him for having firearms,S.O.19 surounded the place-they were fully armed,and backed up by dogs.all because he liked military vehicles.Ican't confirm if this is indeed true,but i believe it!
ride safe and free,martyn aberdare.

Hello shoetou,just a little 'snapshot' of life in a 'third world' country,west of offa's dike.
life is funny sometimes.I have a seriously disabled friend,who lives near trevor the terrorist,i used to pick him up in a rig i used to have,take him out to
get pissed and generally have a laugh[i stayed sober till i parked up].he is too ill to ride now but he still has a good time in the local pub.
all the best,ride safe and free,merry christmas to you and yours.martyn. aberdare.

Hello Dubliner15,
come home to a real fire-buy a holiday home in wales!!
ride safe and free,merry christmas to you and yours.martyn aberdare.

HEE,hee!hello neil,Did you know it is still legal in hereford to kill a welshman with a bow and arrow during a certain time of day?
I came to the conclusion years ago that every one is guilty of something-untill proven innocent!the older i get the more cynical i get,i must stop it!
ride safe and free,merry christmas to you and yours.martyn aberdare.

[/quote]
HEE,hee!hello neil,Did you know it is still legal in hereford to kill a welshman with a bow and arrow during a certain time of day?
I came to the conclusion years ago that every one is guilty of something-untill proven innocent!the older i get the more cynical i get,i must stop it!
ride safe and free,merry christmas to you and yours.martyn aberdare.
[/quote]

Thats why there are never any Welshmen in Hereford. Should be quite safe now though, apart from the ASBO's, but they affect us all.......
I love Wales, second nicest county after my own, Warwickshire...

Merry Xmas

Even if it was you one day, because you happened to fit a particular demographic?



Personally, I think the new laws being brought in are utter arse. What better way to control your populace (whom the government should be serving, rather than oneself...).

Wanna stop terrorism? Revise foreign policies....

Sorry Nell but I don't think you know what you are talking about. British police are NOT about manufacturing evidence, I've been on the receiving end of it. My family was also on the receiving end of the intelligence services when my father was active in the Scottish National Party in the 70's. So I have a reasonable idea what they are like.

Martyn, keep eye out. I'll be interested to see what happens to Trevor the Terrorist.

Hi SB and Warthog,

I can understand where both of you are coming from, but what I stated was my belief, I wasnt imposing my belief on anyone else... So IMHO

SB, what was happening in the 70's in the UK,....... IRA / Currupt police / civil disturbances / Strikes / Riots. That was 30-40 years ago. The West-Midlands police got the biggest kick up the arse when the Birmingham 6 were released in '91 due to the police's fabrication of evidence. I doubt any force in the UK would try it on again. Better training, procedures and better educated coppers!


Warthog, No I would not like to spend a few days in nick obviously, but I have faith in the Police. They are under staffed, undervalued and ridiculed but how bad would it be without them.
I wouldnt want to have soldiers or paramilitary police on the streets patrollling like some 3rd world state. seen it didnt like it.

I'm ex British Army, I have family that are coppers. I think I have an idea of whats going on, now.

Cheers,

I have no major issues with the police either. Those I have met, and personally known have been decent folk (apart from one utter twat, but that's life). Same for the members of the armed forces I have met....

The fact is, neither of these organisations designed the anti terror bills. These bills came from Whitehall, and indeed members of both the police and army, as I'm sure you know from personal or family experience, simply carry our the instructions they are given, in the manner that they are told.

It's not the police I don't trust, it's government. It so happens that the police are the face of governmental policies being carried out when it comes to these kinds of laws.

I'm sure the police simply follow the guidelines and outcome targets they are given, but those guidelines have to come from somewhere....

Perhaps I am overly cynical, but I cannot say that I would ever take the reasons given by the government for this action or that at face value. Any reasons the government put forward for particular action are either a smoke screen or have a multitude of other hidden agendas, IMO.

We all know that Spin-doctors are the oil in the governmental machine and yet we, the public, still listen to MPs and ministers state their arguements and actually believe them to be sincere: If they were telling the truth about these various issues, what would be the point in the spin-doctors in the first place?

Starting a war in another country using questionable reasons as justification pretty much clinched this view for me...

So when they say these measures are for our protection....

Hello Serious Black, My step-father[a good man who had a tremendously funny dry wit],used to be a pumps-man/engineer for the coal board,one day
he arrived at the pit he was based at to find thieves had broken in to the machine shop and stole most of his tools,oxy-acetylene welding gear and an anvil
plus base.Anyway,long story short,the police found said equipment.My step-father had to go to the cop shop to identify his stuff.yes,it was all there,he had to go back to get a truck to pick it up.When he came back,the anvil and base was missing.couldn't find it anywhere.a couple of months later,he was told by a friend of his ,that the chief constable [at that time] had stolen it and put it in his garden as an ornament!
ride safe and free,merry christmas to you and yours.martyn.aberdare

Warthog,

Which measures are actually affecting our civil rights? sorry I dont want to do this post to death, but perhaps I am missing something here.

Martyn, I bet that Chief Cunstable was an Englishman too....LOL

Cheers,

Hello neil,I agree with you, the police are really pi**ed off with all the beurocratic red tape-how can they do their job properly with one hand tied behind their back.they may start out with the best will in the world,but they soon get jaded and 'some' just turn as crooked as the criminals they are supposed to catch.
ride safe and free,martyn aberdare.

I expect you're referring to my views on these laws in my first post on the subject...

Well, lengthy detention without charge for a start. Yes, it is only supposed to be related to terror suspects, but who checks the validity and plausibility of the suspicions used to approve such an arrest? Would these always be completely ethical judgements if that adjective can ever be applied? After all the first to be imprisoned under the ATCSA 2001 were then deemed to be illegally imprisoned by the House of Lords, no less. Didn't stop them staying in the clink for a few months longer without even a trial...

10 years ago, these measures would have had the voting public up in arms...

Thing is, it is quite hard to put your finger on which of one's personal rights are being infringed at that moment, because it predominantly affects "someone" else, but at the risk of sounding cliche, it's the thin edge of the wedge, IMHO. You ask some young muslim (looking) lad who gets stopped and searched or quizzed umpteen times and you may find he feels its more intrusive.

Then you have the government that used these measures (or rather the reduced limiting legislation) to tap phones of other officials in Whitehall IIRR!!

Measures are proposed, and although a little harsh in our eyes, we acquiese because we have terror attacks of one kind or another fed to us through the media every single day, so we don't kick up a fuss. A few years later we are so used to it, we forget our initial reticence. Then new measures are brought in, duly "justified" in one way or another, and the process repeats itself.

Then, if you have the presence of mind, you think back 15 years the way we might now and see how much things have changed and think to yourself "WTF?!? How did get like this without me noticing?!?"

The UK was under far greater threat of terrorism in the 70s and 80s IMO, but the government then did not resort to these measures, so why now?

Naturally, you need not agree with my views but I really think this is a slippery slope and it is not the general public that will feel what ever benefits may exist... now and certainly in the future.

Beware the leader who bangs the drum of war in order to whip the citizenry into a patriotic fervour. For patriotism is indeed a double- edged sword. It both emboldens the blood, just as it narrows the mind. And when the drums of war have reached a fever pitch and the blood boils with hate and the mind has closed, the leader will have no need in seizing the rights of the citizenry. Rather, the citizenry, infused with fear and patriotism, will offer up all of their rights to the leader and gladly so.
How do I know? For this is what I have done. And I am Julius Caesar."

Hello jules,well said julius!!the self serving leading the blind and gullible to tyrrany and death!!!
ride safe and free! martyn aberdare.

Hi Warthog,

Now that hit the nail on the head, great response and thank you for taking the time,

Until the terrorists are either broken or they stop bombing, the Govt. will not change its stance...........Period.
I doubt very much that we will ever be able to stop the terrorists totally by military means.
The Foreign Office will not change its policies towards the middle east until the oil runs out....our policies are in line with the USA.
There is no middle ground, the Islamic Jihad hates the west and we cant live without the middle east..

So I feel we are stuck in Limbo, damned if we do, damned if we don't.

I personally dont feel that my civil liberties have been infringed, In fact I feel quite lucky and secure compared to others in the world.
And that is from first hand knowledge. Maybe that's made me soft to what the western Governments are doing.
Doesn't help the innocent minority factory worker etc.......when pulled in for questioning though, which breeds more decent.

Simple things keep me happy, I have a good job, my kids are well fed and clothed, they go to good schools and our home is safe, warm and dry.
On the fence? Probably.
Can we stop the viscous circle? Not until we kick the oil dependence? but THEN we will have bigger problems.....

Merry Xmas & Happy New Year !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yup, unfortunately, that is pretty much the crux of it...

Happy holidays to you, too.

Oh oil thread...

I'm in now 20-50 dyno or synthetic?

Hmmm.. oil and terrorism... perhaps there's a connecting thread here....





DubXmas

I spent 18 years in the RAF myself. I lost a lot of respect for the police after I bought my RD250 back in 1977. Having been brought up to beleive they were the good guys I quickly found that I was now ´the enemy´ and some of them believed theirselves to be a race apart. ´we are the law´! I understand the need for the police service and sympathise with it´s aims but until the British police service becomes closer to the people it serves once more I will treat it with the same scepticism that experience has taught me.

The Norwegian Politi I have little but praise for. They have always treated me and my mates civily and been helpfull. Norwegian society tries very hard not to treat them any diferent under the law than anybody else. It is expected that, as they are the executive arm of the law, their behaviour is above reproach but the system is also flexible enough to accept that they are at the end of the day as human as the rest of us.

Warthog, brilliant reply, I agree withevery word.

I sometimes wonder at they way the European politicians QUICKLY jumped on the climate band wagon. A REALLY good excuse to ween us of oil and it will get general public support.