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My $.02 on the change of RIMC ownership FWIW...


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#1 JohnBG

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Posted 16 July 2007 - 09:13 PM

One of the things I have always loved about the RIMC site is the fact that it has always been "independent" and not affiliated with IMZ, IMWA or any specific dealership.   I had liked the camaraderie and the willingness of folks to help each other out just for the love of the bikes, wohout any intent for profit. You could feel free to gripe or praise the factory, dealers, parts, service or products in a neutral forum.   Not everyone here drank the IMWA kool-aid and had an outlet to express their honest opinions and frustrations.  There was also a place for off-topic rants, political and philisophical discussions for everyone to chime in on.  
This is why for years I had pretty much shyed away from the IMWA board and hung out here.   :beerchug:

I would have piped in sooner with my thoughts, but I just got back from a week vacation...
I suppose the change of ownership is partially my doing.   :flameon:

Since the deal is done and the site is sold now, I feel I can spill the beans with my involvement in it's sale.  

I tried to buy RIMC and fix it and keep it independent.

Here's "The Rest of the Story" as Paul Harvey would say...

For about the past year or so, Glenn had provided me with his private "back-door" business e-mail address so that I could contact him when the board crashed, new members couldn't get in, or there was a problem.  Glenn very frequently stopped in to the site, maybe because of being to busy or perhaps lack of interest.  I was glad to help out as I really liked the site, call me a chronic.  

About 8 months ago, ago after the board kept continually crashing, the great spammer fiasco, and new members couldn't get access,  I asked Glenn to let me be an admin or moderator on the site to help keep it running and perhaps fix and update the site. But for some reason or another, that never happened.  

It seems that people couldn't get in touch with Glenn (the e-mail address he has listed here didn't work or he didn't check it) and ther would e-mail me to try and get help.   So I would use the back-door e-mail address Glenn gave me and he would usually have it fixed by his web host within a few days.

Finally, a few months ago I asked him if I could perhaps buy the site from him.  I swear his ears perked up when I said "buy".... :ohmy:

My goal was not to turn it into a "for profit" website but to keep it the way it was and freshen it, fix the picture pages, update the links and add some new features and content.  Most of all, I wanted to keep it independent.  I was concerned that Glenn's lack of attention to and maintenance of the site was casuing it to decline at an advancing rate. There were quite a few complaints of new members not being able to gain acess.

As far as the operating costs, I had hoped that perhaps some donations and the sales of RIMC gear would cover the costs of running the board (hosting fees, software, and board license fees) and the surplus, if any, would go to some charity like the Ride for Kids or Charlie's Bulgarian orphanage.  If there was a shortfall, I woulda covered it out of my own pocket as best I could.

Glenn an I talked on the phone and we had some preliminary discussions on the price.  We threw out some numbers and we were about $2000 apart between what he wanted and what I could afford to spring for out of my own pocket.  (Don't let those hammer & sickle shoes fool ya, Glenn is a true capitalist at heart.)    :P

Glenn asked me to keep our discussions of the sale of the site off of the board so not to casue any chaos and I repected that.  We agreed to take a few days to think it over and discuss it further.

I chatted in person and via e-mail with a few of the other regulars here and a few people offered to chip in some $$$ to sweeten the offer.  Some other folks offered to chip in via PayPal via some generic discussions about upgrading the board.  I told Glenn we could perhaps come up with another $500 to 1000 and could pay him a percentage of the proceeds from the RIMC gear for a period of time to make up the difference.

I tried talking to Glenn again but it appeared he might have cooled on selling the site or perhaps he was too busy with other things.  For the better pat of a month or so, my e-mails to him had been pretty much ignored until he said had another interested party.    He had hinted that other party was interested in making it a commercial for profit venture.  I suspected it was probably a Ural dealer.  

I implored to Glenn's reasons for starting RIMC and asked him to consider that I was wanting to keep it running as a not-for-profit club strictly for the love and enjoyment of those with of Urals & Dneprs and wanting to keep an independent site free from factory or dealer controls.  Glenn kept up his sales pitch saying I could make money from the site by travelling to rallies and selling RIMC gear and shirts.  I reminded him that I didn't want RIMC to be a for profit venture.  I e-mailed him and asked him for the courtesy of "last look" and the opportunity to match whatever offer he might receive from another party.  

Another month or two went by with me sending Glenn several e-mails but no reply. :glare:

Finally, last Saturday,  while I am driving through Atlanta for the start of a week-long family vacation, my cell phone rings and it's Glenn calling me and let me know that he sold the RIMC site to someone else.   I asked Glenn why he hadn't responded to my e-mails and he told me that the buyer was in a totally different ballpark price-wise than I was and no other explaination other than that.  

At first he didn't want to tell me that he had sold the site to Crawford's, but he figured I would find out anyway.  He told me the deal was done and there was opprtunity to match any offer.  He was just getting ready to hit the "Post" button to put it on the site.  He did not disclose what he ended up selling it for (I hope ya didn't pay too much for it Terry), not that I would tell anyone anyway.   I was pretty stunned, disappointed and pi$$ed off to say the least.  I tried not to think of it while on vacation, but I was still pretty steamed. :flameon:

I felt I had had the best interests of the board in mind and had pretty much been the thorn in his side for the past year to get it back running whenever it crashed.  I had hoped that Glenn would want to keep the site as an independent club.   I had hoped that I might receive some consideration for my efforts in keeping it running by letting Glenn know when it was not working.

I was wrong.  I'm sorry folks, I tried.  I was outbid.  

Bottom line: It's was Glenn's site to do with as he wanted, and he was free to sell it to whoever he wanted, at whatever price he wanted.  I hold no grudge against him for that.   I am rather disappointed in the way it all went down though. :angry:

I thank Glenn for starting the site and putting the time into it to get it going.  I wish he had not lost the fire, desire or time to work on it and let it languish for so long.  

I thank all of the folks here for making this site what it was/is.  If it weren't for y'all, I woulda rolled the 650 down the driveway a long time ago and set it on fire and never woulda bought the Raven.

As far as the future of the site, I wish Terry the best of luck with it.  

I hope that he will try to maintain that independent spirit of the club, although I don't think that is possible from a dealer standpoint.   Turning it into a dealer website will kill it IMO...  at least for me.

I think IMWA does have some rules governing how their dealers can operate and advertise on their websites as part of their IMWA dealership agreement.  (If ya don't belive me, ask Ural NW why they aren't advertising "2007 Ravens" on their website anymore!)   The factory has pull on it's dealers.  Even their large volume dealers like Crawford's.    

As far as my future with RIMC, I honestly don't know.  I really have mixed feelings about it.

I didn't mind sharing my Ural experiences and mechanical comedy photo-essays as long as I knew it was not for anyone's particular financial gain.  I viewed it as kind of like "public domain" software or Linux where people could use it and disribute it freely.  Now that it is owned by an organization diven by profit (not that there is anything wrong with making a profit) right now I don't feel as eager to post them here.  Perhaps I'll post them to another site or start my own Ural tech site maybe like Bill Glaser did.

Other than that, I'll just lurk for a while until my feelings on it are clear and see what happens.  

If it stays pretty much the same as it was, then I'll probably participate.  But if it loses that independent spirit, becomes censored, and ends up turning into a neutered dealer site than I shall bid it a fond farewell and move along.

Why am I writing this?  I'm sorry to be long winded and it's not the purpose for me to have "sour grapes" or express ill-will or be a pain in the a$$ to anyone.    Now that Glenn has sold the site, and the deal is done I feel I can now come out in the open and let you know the events that transpired up to the sale that I could not discuss before.  

I feel I owe that to the members here, especially those that offered their time and financial support to help to try to buy and improve the site and keep it indepedent.  

Thanks guys for your support... :unsure2:  

I'm sorry it didn't turn out like I had hoped.
John Grocke (a.k.a. JohnBG)
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#2 Ragman

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Posted 16 July 2007 - 09:33 PM

Thank you John, for the explanation, I wish I had known, as I would happily have supplied the needed funds for you to buy the site.  I too, thanks to your post, am not happy that the site has become a 'for profit' venture.  Time will tell if Crawfords will turn it into a clone of the IMWA board. If that happens, I think I would not post here, same as I do not post there.
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#3 MartyL

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Posted 16 July 2007 - 09:59 PM

John, Thank you for the explanation. It was truly a noble effort for you to keep RIMC an independent entity. I think Terry needs to address and post his ideas for this website since many members are fearful of things going sour. Like you say, time will tell. On another note, if your are around this weekend, how about a ride with some of the Central Fl. boys and pound down some frosty beverages?  :beerchug: Drop me an e-mail. Peace.....
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#4 Rich Maund

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Posted 16 July 2007 - 10:09 PM

My 2 cents.

The sale of it is none of my business. It was private property after all. And if you had gotten it John, I believe you would have run it with a good heart and fair mind. I'd continue to be a active member here.

That said. I have known and dealt with Terry as a customer and in my own business for some years now. When I think of Terry, I think things like honor, old fashioned integrity and honesty. He is one of the most straight up guys I know and I trust him. I cannot picture him running this board as a subsidary of IMWA. I can picture him making it reflect the business model I've seen him stand for all this time. I think that's why the mascot got kicked off. I've always had qualms about the big boobed mascot as I see these rigs as a family thing. I get a feeling Terry will run it in a family friendly fashion. I just can't picture him running it any other way. Myself? I'm content with "G" rated content here.

I guess I'm saying that I have confidence that Russian Iron will stay true to it's original intent, minus Svetty  :beerchug: , under Crawfords. I see no reasons to worry about the board's future.

And I think you're a great guy John. If you choose to leave here I know I'd miss your postings! I hope you'll stay. And thanks for info on this! Very interesting stuff!
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#5 JohnBG

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Posted 16 July 2007 - 10:16 PM

View PostMartyL, on Jul 16 2007, 10:59 PM, said:

John, Thank you for the explanation. It was truly a noble effort for you to keep RIMC an independent entity. I think Terry needs to address and post his ideas for this website since many members are fearful of things going sour. Like you say, time will tell. On another note, if your are around this weekend, how about a ride with some of the Central Fl. boys and pound down some frosty beverages? :beerchug: Drop me an e-mail. Peace.....

No, Terry does not need to address anything or offer an explanation.  It was probably a good business move on his part.  It's his site to do with as he pleases now. He paid a significant amount of $$$ for that privilige.  I don't know exacly how much but I have my suspicions.  

I have serious doubts that the board will remain the same though.   I already don't feel the same about posting here.  Much like Mother Russia, the RIMC collective has turned into a capatalist venture. :unsure2:

As far as riding, this weekend is out for me.  My son is having orthoscopic surgery on his shoulder on Friday and I'll need to be home for support.

I really need a ride.  It's been 10 days since I've been in the saddle.  I really wish I woulda took the Ural up to NC last week.  Absolutely wonderful roads up there in the mountains.   Maybe I can arrange a ride up ther efor us Central FL folks later this year.
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#6 JohnBG

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Posted 16 July 2007 - 10:35 PM

View PostRich Maund, on Jul 16 2007, 11:09 PM, said:

My 2 cents.

The sale of it is none of my business. It was private property after all. And if you had gotten it John, I believe you would have run it with a good heart and fair mind. I'd continue to be a active member here.

That said. I have known and dealt with Terry as a customer and in my own business for some years now. When I think of Terry, I think things like honor, old fashioned integrity and honesty. He is one of the most straight up guys I know and I trust him. I cannot picture him running this board as a subsidary of IMWA. I can picture him making it reflect the business model I've seen him stand for all this time. I think that's why the mascot got kicked off. I've always had qualms about the big boobed mascot as I see these rigs as a family thing. I get a feeling Terry will run it in a family friendly fashion. I just can't picture him running it any other way. Myself? I'm content with "G" rated content here.

I guess I'm saying that I have confidence that Russian Iron will stay true to it's original intent, minus Svetty :flameon: , under Crawfords. I see no reasons to worry about the board's future.

And I think you're a great guy John. If you choose to leave here I know I'd miss your postings! I hope you'll stay. And thanks for info on this! Very interesting stuff!


Thanks for the compliment...

I'm not picking on Terry by any means...  I have nothing but respect for the guy.   He's never done me wrong, although I buy most of my stuff from Holopaw Gene as he is my local dealer and always treated me right.  But the times I have bought from Terry it has been top-notch.

But be assured things here will change...  Not so much at first so as not to ruffle the feathers.  Gradual changes will happen.  First it's Svetty (by his decsion or not) then what else?  I fear the "Whatever" and "Rant & Rave" will disappear next.  Dealers nowdays have to be so PC and non-offensive in everything, kinda like those endless "Lite Rock" fluff radio stations that bore me to tears.  I like the edgier stuff...  

Sorry Svetty offended ya...  She wasn't too hard on my eyes.... :beerchug:  :unsure2:  :flameon:

I was not trying to disclose any personal financial information or anything like that.   That was not my intent of the post.  

Now that it's all said and done, I just thought y'all as members were entitled to know.  I wanted to solicit financial help to keep the site independent on the forums months ago, but I had agreed to keep the discussions off the site with Glenn.  

I figured y'all might want to know that Terry wasn't the only one with an interest to keep the site running and improve it.   I'm sure Terry will do his best to keep the site running as he paid a significant sum of money for it.  I'm sure his motives are good.  However, like the good businessman that he is, I'm sure he is expecting some sort of financial return on his investment to purschase RIMC.  Not that there is anything wrong with turning a profit.  As a Republican, I'm all in favor of that... :glare:

Needless to say I feel that RIMC has lost it's independence...  It's part of a business now.
John Grocke (a.k.a. JohnBG)
1998.5 Ural Tourist 650 - "Valentina" - The Blonde
2006 Ural Raven 750 - "Vorona" - The Brunette

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Now visit the Soviet Steeds Photo Galleries - http://www.sovietsteeds.com/galleries - Add your own pics.

#7 mracer

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Posted 16 July 2007 - 11:08 PM

I know that I joined this group at a later time of its creation, but I wish that maybe this information was brought forward to all of us so that we could make a collective decision and pay the man whatever he wanted to keep this site going in an independant way. I don't know how this will turn out to be, but to be a member of a for profit club that is ran by a single owner (a dealer at that) seems rather strange - if that is in fact how it's going to be. It's not going to be bad - just different ... and strange... I must admit though that I am a member of a Pelican Parts Porsche chat group that is paid by Pelican Parts but never felt the weight of their presence.....
Then again, just saying good bye and leaving isn't right either. We are all bound by years of friendship and helping eachother - even if being online friends and such... Just leaving is almost like letting eachother down. These are the times when we should stick together, forming a stronger bond and if seeing that this site isn't going the way we hope, we can make a GROUP decision and start another.
Well, that's my personal 02 cents.
John, thank you for taking time, heart and honor in keeping this site up and letting us know the truth...

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#8 kliff

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Posted 17 July 2007 - 06:15 AM

Wow!  :beerchug:
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#9 MartyL

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Posted 17 July 2007 - 06:18 AM

John, My prayers go out to your son with his surgery this friday. Family first. I'm in town all next week if you have some free time (maybe dinner somewhere around town) let's get together. If some of the other Central Fl. guys are around maybe we can organize a get together. I'm up for suggestions. I do hope that this site will stay, " a free to discuss openly" type of site. The info. I obtain and the friendship is something I cherish greatly.  Cheers!
Peace....God Bless our brave soldiers defending our freedom.
Marty
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#10 csbdr

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Posted 17 July 2007 - 06:54 AM

View PostJohnBG, on Jul 16 2007, 11:35 PM, said:

Needless to say I feel that RIMC has lost it's independence... It's part of a business now.


Hey John! That's pretty wierd news. Thanks for letting us know how things came down. I really wish that Glenn had given the members the opportunity to buy the site. The fact that he didn't (which would have been a natural option in my book) almost makes me feel that this place was never truly "independent" to start, in a way. Not that I really know anything...really. That said, thinking as a good capitalist, I wonder if it would be in Terry's best interest to pursue the changes you fear? No doubt there will be changes, but there are and have been many very verbal memebers who have said they will jump ship if certain circumstances come to pass. If I owned this site, and was monitoring the discussion so far, I'd be VERY careful about doing much for fear of having the board dissolve through attrition (particularly loss of the most experienced members). I know, I know, the cynical view could hold that that's the point, get the old guard to leave and things will settle down how you want it. Maybe....Having a dealer take the ideas in your posts and use them in his own business, for profit? You really think that hasn't happened a time or two already?

I don't know...I'm taking a wait and see approach. I love this place and it would be sad to see yourself, DaveO or any of the members leave it because of anxieties about what may or may not happen. We as of yet, don't know how things will go. So far, not much different. Rich seems confident that all will be well. Maybe...There's already an alternative board (Kliff's link to the Iron Curtain M/C) which shares many of the same members. Nice, but i don't like it as much. I'd prolly go there myself if things go south here. Hopefully they won't. I still think we have a lot more to say about how things go here than it seems (or I'm deluded).

I do wish Terry would start talking. I'm sure he's seeing all of this. It really bothers me that he is choosing to remain silent.  Hope you're well, John - Chris
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#11 IMZman

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Posted 17 July 2007 - 07:09 AM

Hey, let's cover the full spectrum of possibilities, maybe IMWA is going to ditch their website and Terry got advanced wind of this and...oh, never mind :beerchug:
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#12 Yobe

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Posted 17 July 2007 - 07:35 AM

Valient effort John, thanks for the rest of the story. I think many of us are taking the wait and see approach.

I am free next weekend for a ride around the 7th plane of Hades known as CFla.  :beerchug:
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#13 Rich Maund

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Posted 17 July 2007 - 08:39 AM

I think what we're doing here is like yelling "movie" in a crowded Fire House. No need to panic everyone!

Let's look at what Terry has done here so far:
Galleries are fixed and everything works right again. And that is for the first time in a looooong time!

And we're getting our panties in a bunch over this?  :beerchug:

OK.... I'm breathing easier now!
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#14 kevo

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Posted 17 July 2007 - 08:50 AM

Well, heck, John. I hope you don't leave - I've enjoyed your posts - I've learned (and laughed) a lot from reading them.

I've been reading the board and trying to get my membership validated since December - just happened this morning - so this is my first post.

Just my opinion - but boards live and die by the members - not the owners (or moderators). RIMC is great because of the members. If members start to drift away - for whatever reason - the traffic will drop - and the value of the board will decline. I'd just guess that Terry wouldn't want to shell out for an asset, and then do things to make it lose value (and members).  From a purely business standpoint, I can't imagine RIMC would be a profit center, but there's a huge amount of goodwill Terry can build from this site. Just a guess - but I'd think that's the real value he can gain from owning the site.

Here's hoping for the best

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#15 Bill

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Posted 17 July 2007 - 09:03 AM

I agree with Rich,

Maybe I am missing something, but I just don't understand why people are getting worried here. I have every belife that the board will not suffer from new ownership. In the unlikely event that it does, I belive the market will step in to create a new home for the disatisfied. Lets just wait and see what happens and then deal with it in the unlikey event that there is a problem.
It seems that some people are wanting to take action, jump ship or start a revolution when so far it just seems like business as usual to me.


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