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#31 Greg

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Posted 15 December 2006 - 12:54 PM

View PostChicagoRandy, on Dec 15 2006, 12:40 PM, said:

I also "presume" there are substantial fees to the importing agent, DOT issues etc? 2700 tires is one honkin' big pile o' tires :thumbsup!: What would that actually be? a full semi-trailer size container or two?

I'd help out by buying some tires for my use but somebody sure would need warehousing space.

It's either a 20' or 40' container. The price I quoted earlier was for a DOT set. 3,000 Urals sold since '94 is less than 1 pusher tire a year. If IMWA didn't have the money to perform, they shouldn't have shafted CSMI. Ilya, reap what you sow! Barley makes beer, wheat makes flour, BS makes???

#32 Ed Paynter

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Posted 15 December 2006 - 05:55 PM

View Postbear, on Dec 15 2006, 10:58 AM, said:

:thumbsup!: the tire size on a 2004 Ural Patrol is 4.00x19, right?  But I have seen people mention 3.50x19  What are other sizes that fit and cross reference sizes that will work when the 4.00x19 isn't mentioned?  I am confused...so confused.

There are literally dozens of tires out there for 19" rims.
There are probably even more for 18" rims.

I've used 3.25x19, 3.50x19, 3.75x19, 4.00x19, 4.25x19, 4.50x19 in all 3 positions on my Patrol
I've also used 100/90x19, 110/80x19, 110/90x19, 120/80x19, 120/90x19 in all 3 positions on my Patrol!

A 90/90x19 would probably work but that's getting pretty skinny!

I've even used a 4.75x19, (but only on the front!!)

yeah, you use a lot of tires running a Ural rig 140,000km  :)

It's all in the metric vs SAE nomenclature and there are charts online that will show you general conversions.....there is some variation in sizes between different dealers!

some list tread width, some maximum tire width

metric tires use  W/H (110/90)  =  width in mm/% of width in height
Generally speaking, 100-120mm = ~3.5-4.25 inches?


It's confusing, but they are both the same kind of tires? Don't let the jargon confuse you.  

The main thing is the x19....that means 19 inch rim.  :)

ed
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#33 Neil3Wheeler

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Posted 15 December 2006 - 07:33 PM

View PostGreg, on Dec 14 2006, 10:08 PM, said:

The reason for the swap from Uralshina to another brand seems to be purely financial. Uralshina apparently has the audacity to want to be PAID for it's tires! It seems that they won't supply tires to Uralmoto, Motoimpex etc. until all debts are paid up. The current price for a single C-93 (DOT) tire is about 700 rbl (about $26). That includes tube and rim band. Might be a good business for an enterprising dealer.

Also on the subject of IMZ bankruptcy, seems another large section of the factory was just sold off by the oblast government to pay off debts. Purchaser is a Swiss or German timber company. That has to be good for Irbit if not for IMZ. Another large company that pays employees on time and actually putting money into pension funds will cause a lot of good workers to think about employment elsewhere.

View PostChicagoRandy, on Dec 15 2006, 12:42 PM, said:

This is what Ilya posted on the IMWA web-board regarding tires, castings and Irbit "stories". Not trying to start a debate but he doesn't post here and since his comments WERE let out to the worldwide web, I can't imagine he'd mind them being shared here as well.:

Ok, now it's my turn.

Dennis,
Foundry was sold to independent company 6 years ago. Since then we have been purchasing ALL casting from several companies in Russia and even outside Russia. Where have you been all this time?

Randy,
We haven't even finalized the contract with the new tire manufacturer. Even I don't know the price yet. How did you manage to find out?
As for the new tires itself - these are street tires, rated for our load requirements, of good quality and not too expensive. We have tested them for over 8 months and are happy with the results.
We'll announce when these tires become available. We expect this to happen during the next 3 months.

Heidenau tires is a different story. These are high quality German made dual-sport tires. They are really expensive, but these are the only dual-sport tires on the market, rated for our load requirements.
Heidenau tires are readily available through the dealers now.

Desantnik,
You are a great guy, but IMWA will never sell parts retail and will not build on-line parts store.

Randy again,
I read your last post as well as "Greg"'s post on the other board. What can I say? To bull###### and gossip around is much easier than getting real things done. As they say in Asia, the dog is barking, but the caravan keeps moving on.

All,

Any more questions you would like to hear answers on directly from the "horse mouth"?

Ilya Khait
President, IMWA


View PostGreg, on Dec 15 2006, 01:35 PM, said:

Pretty simple John,

2700 x $26 = $70,200 plus shipping say $5,000,

Ilya didn't deny anything! IMWA can't buy Uralshina tires. We can!


View PostGreg, on Dec 15 2006, 01:54 PM, said:

It's either a 20' or 40' container. The price I quoted earlier was for a DOT set. 3,000 Urals sold since '94 is less than 1 pusher tire a year. If IMWA didn't have the money to perform, they shouldn't have shafted CSMI. Ilya, reap what you sow! Barley makes beer, wheat makes flour, BS makes???

Greg,

If you employ a fact-checker, fire him...if you don't have one, hire one.
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ИМЗ 8.1037   2WD 750см3
CVK-32mm, OEM jets: 38/65/125
Tires (Уралшина): 32f/30s/40pusher
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Тише едешь - дальше будешь!

#34 wyowillys46

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Posted 15 December 2006 - 09:14 PM

True, there are dozens of 19 inch tires out there, but the catch is what the load rating is.

I did some rough calculations based on recommended tire pressures representing what load percentage they carry. I think you could get away with something like a rating of 53 with a total weight of 1100 pounds and all three wheels on the ground (static). Start popping wheelies, flying the chair, or drifting through corners and you have to up the tire's load rating.

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#35 TX.TIM

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Posted 15 December 2006 - 10:56 PM

i've got a warehouse:a 40'er is no problem.i'm just south of houston in galveston.i get containers from china every month.the delivered cost is anywhere from $3500-5500,depending on the fob port and size of container.you could fill it with other parts as well.something to think about.tim.
24 hours,maybe 60 good years,it's really not that long a stay-jimmy b.

#36 JEB

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Posted 16 December 2006 - 12:07 AM

I too tried the 3.5 x19 chen shins and killed the pusher in around a thousand miles. I get closer to 5 k out of the uralshinas.
I will gladly try the new tyres that Ilya will be marketing shortly.
In any case I need to get some new tires soon.
Ed, which ones work the best??
http://www.coker.com...c...=268&page=5
http://www.coker.com...c...=268&page=5
http://www.coker.com...c...=268&page=5

(P.S. pictures of my rewiring should be available tomorrow.)
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#37 emag

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Posted 16 December 2006 - 01:07 AM

And here I was getting ready to order a tire or two.  I'm thinking this topic is pretty important; the collective foil will improvise, adapt and overcome.  To that end, maybe we could share info regarding suitable tires; i.e., sources, model numbers, personal experiences.  I for one would find the sports car tire mentioned above useful, it fits my predominent driving style.  Mostly street, mild off road, no mud bogging and I'm not interested in flying the chair.  Maybe these posts would be more appropriate in nuts and bolts, I dunno.  Hope I'm making sense.....'twas a rough week but today I got a surprise award and accompanying bonus for a successful project I led this year.  Called for a few celebratory barley pops, but I needed my Russian Iron fix before heading off to drool on my pillow.

My contribution.....a site with size conversions, speed and load ratings.  Worth printing out to keep handy as you search for new shoes for the ride.  Old hat for some, useful for others.

http://www.webbikewo...s/tire-data.htm
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#38 Mud Pie

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Posted 16 December 2006 - 01:32 AM

I called my "new" dealer nearby yesterday and asked if they had Ural tires in stock.  They had 2 left !!  Said I was coming to buy both.  Today, instead of eating lunch, I drove out there.

Much to my disappointment, yep, they had two.  Two Dunlops.  At something like 130 bucks A PIECE !!  When I said I called and asked if they had Ural tires, she said these will fit a Ural.  Guess my bad for not saying Uralshina tires.......  I walked out empty handed and hungry.

So now I'm on the pre-paid wait list like everyone else.......

These rigs eat tires as fast a kid with a new pack of gum.  If I have to spend 130 bucks every 5k, my rig will always have low miles.

Discontinuing one brand of tire before you have the other readily available in stock is about the most stupid thing I've ever heard of.  Kind of like you wanting to change power companies, so you cancel your current provider, then sit in the dark for a few months while you check out the others....  

Way to go IMWA !!  :unsure2:


It's all our fault, actually.  We constantly say how cheap everything is, Russia probably started looking at what other manufacturers charge for their parts, and now they've jacked up their prices.  Look how much everything has increased in the past 4-5 years.  Their prices were probably based on what THEY thought was reasonable.  When you gross about 300 bucks a MONTH in Russia, 45 bucks for a tire is beaucoup bucks.  When they realized us Americans make 300 bucks a DAY at our jobs, why wouldn't they raise the prices ?

They've become the dope dealers of the bike world.  Give us rigs for a good price, get enough of us hooked, they slowly raise the prices for us to keep them running !!  We have no choice, we are addicts !  

And sadly, we'll all pay the pusherman.
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#39 Ed Paynter

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Posted 16 December 2006 - 01:45 AM

Jeb:
I've used both the Firestone tire and Coker Classic Diamond tread that you posted.  Both are good tires and lasted longer than the old 2000-2001 variety Russian tires. ( I cannot compare them to the Russian tires being sold recently as I have never tried them, but I hear very good comments about them.)  Both of these are motorcycle tires and have a semi-block profile.....flat tread but rounded shoulders.   These work fine for flying the chair.

The Firestone was one of the best balanced highway tires I used.  The Coker tire you posted was one of the better DualSport (onroad/offroad) tires that I've used.  I liked them both.  The Firestone generally lasted about 10,000kms as a pusher and the Coker about 8,000kms.   The old style Russian tires lasted about 4-5000kms.

The tires that I use now are the Excelsior Sport Car trials tire.....I use the 4.50x19.  

http://www.coker.com...c...cat=&page=1

Robbie Moore has also used them on his Patrol for some time.    They last a looong time and have a load rating that exceeds anything else you'll find....they're car tires!  These are NOT chair flying tires.....these are full block profile, square shouldered highway tires.   They're several inches taller than any other 19" tire  and about 12" greater in circumference.....meaning they push 1 foot farther down the road on each rotation of the wheel.   They'll change your gearing by about 10%......your speedometer and odometer will read 10% slow.  They'll hang in a curve better than any round profile tire out there.  

In my opinion, for touring on a Ural, they can't be beat.  
And they look great.....they look like they were made for a Russian rig.

Now the bad stuff.....
They don't go well in mud....too tight a tread.
They will hydroplane on standing water at high speed.....that wide flat profile!
The traction can get you in trouble.....they'll flip the rig before they'll drift or skid in a turn on hard roads.

Take time to learn their characteristics, and you'll never want any other tire for hard surface use.
(JMHO)   :)

ed

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1988 Honda VT1100c Shadow - "MoonShadow"
1981 Honda GL-500 SilverWing - "LittleWing"
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#40 edthetermite

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Posted 16 December 2006 - 07:42 AM

Mudpie commented:
  When you gross about 300 bucks a MONTH in Russia, 45 bucks for a tire is beaucoup bucks.  When they realized us Americans make 300 bucks a DAY at our jobs, why wouldn't they raise the prices ?


Hey Bud! I don't make no stinkin' 300 smackers a day!!! I am a blue collar guy lucky to make a
hundred a day here in the Ozarks. I've been paying 40 bucks a pop for these Uralshinas and that is
tolerable. I need one EVERY 2500-2800 clicks on the pusher!! At my per year kilometer rate thats
presently $200-250 a year for tyres. I can handle that.

I for one wold be willing to buy SEVERAL at a below dealer rate. But we need ALOT of participation
to make that possible.

Ed
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#41 Greg

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Posted 16 December 2006 - 08:26 AM

View Postedthetermite, on Dec 16 2006, 07:42 AM, said:

Mudpie commented:
  When you gross about 300 bucks a MONTH in Russia, 45 bucks for a tire is beaucoup bucks.  When they realized us Americans make 300 bucks a DAY at our jobs, why wouldn't they raise the prices ?


Hey Bud! I don't make no stinkin' 300 smackers a day!!! I am a blue collar guy lucky to make a
hundred a day here in the Ozarks. I've been paying 40 bucks a pop for these Uralshinas and that is
tolerable. I need one EVERY 2500-2800 clicks on the pusher!! At my per year kilometer rate thats
presently $200-250 a year for tyres. I can handle that.

I for one wold be willing to buy SEVERAL at a below dealer rate. But we need ALOT of participation
to make that possible.

Ed

Ed look at $50 a tire. Someone has to lay out about $80,000 to get those tires here. Ilya doesn't have the money to do it, Crawford's haven't come up to the plate, can't see Vance and Becky offerin to do it! I for one certainly don't have all of that money! The Seattle Cheer Squad will do squint! I will note that Neil3Wheeler says I'm wrong in my claims, but that Ilya has carefully avoided answering them. I don't lie, not worth the effort. Neither does Ilya - he just avoids the truth!

#42 scrinch

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Posted 16 December 2006 - 08:37 AM

I just looked on Amazon.com and they have Avon Sidecar Tires for $81.00  They only have 3.50/ 19 so I am not sure they will fit.

Here is the URL.  http://www.amazon.co...mp;s=automotive
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#43 Mud Pie

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Posted 16 December 2006 - 09:12 AM

View Postedthetermite, on Dec 16 2006, 08:42 AM, said:

Mudpie commented:
  When you gross about 300 bucks a MONTH in Russia, 45 bucks for a tire is beaucoup bucks.  When they realized us Americans make 300 bucks a DAY at our jobs, why wouldn't they raise the prices ?


Hey Bud! I don't make no stinkin' 300 smackers a day!!! I am a blue collar guy lucky to make a
hundred a day here in the Ozarks. I've been paying 40 bucks a pop for these Uralshinas and that is
tolerable. I need one EVERY 2500-2800 clicks on the pusher!! At my per year kilometer rate thats
presently $200-250 a year for tyres. I can handle that.

I for one wold be willing to buy SEVERAL at a below dealer rate. But we need ALOT of participation
to make that possible.

Ed


Ed,

I didn't mean to insult you with the "300 bucks a day" comment.  I was making a generalization just to show the disparity in pay scales here compared to Russia !!  Quite honestly, I have no idea what the pay scale is in Russia.

If you ask any Russian, almost ALL think us Americans are rich !!  Most of us have 2 or more cars in addition to having our Urals.  Most of our houses are 2,000 sf or larger.  Central air-conditioning and central heat.  We have a TV in just about every room.  Telephones AND cell phones.  Desk top computers as well as laptops, all with high-speed interent connections.  Some of us have boats that we use 3-4 times a year, and those boats cost more than the average workers home in Russia.

If you looked at us and saw what we have, wouldn't you consider us rich ?

That was the point behind my rant.  They can constantly raise prices because, "we can afford it".
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#44 Mud Pie

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Posted 16 December 2006 - 09:40 AM

Here's another thought.

Does every Ural dealer HAVE to get their parts from IMWA ?  If not, couldn't each dealer set up a deal with Uralshina do buy the tires direct ?  If every dealer pooled together and contacted Uralshina and said they wanted to buy their product exclusively, wouldn't Uralshina agree ?  Money in their pocket.  Each dealer could buy on an as-needed basis, not on a bulk buy basis.  Basically cut IMWA out of the equation since they no longer want to carry the Uralshina, for reasons they've never explained.

If IMWA wants to supply us with a longer running tire, that's fine.  But give us a choice between the two.  Let US decide which is better for us.
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The early bird mat get the worm, but the worm that sleeps late doesn't get eaten

#45 Greg

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Posted 16 December 2006 - 10:00 AM

View PostMud Pie, on Dec 16 2006, 09:40 AM, said:

Here's another thought.

Does every Ural dealer HAVE to get their parts from IMWA ?  If not, couldn't each dealer set up a deal with Uralshina do buy the tires direct ?  If every dealer pooled together and contacted Uralshina and said they wanted to buy their product exclusively, wouldn't Uralshina agree ?  Money in their pocket.  Each dealer could buy on an as-needed basis, not on a bulk buy basis.  Basically cut IMWA out of the equation since they no longer want to carry the Uralshina, for reasons they've never explained.

If IMWA wants to supply us with a longer running tire, that's fine.  But give us a choice between the two.  Let US decide which is better for us.

Mud Pie, Uralshina would supply the devil himself if he paid cash, unlike IMZ. If you can find about $80,000 I'll have 2,700 tires on your doorstep in a month. Only two dealers have that sort of money, and they're not about to upset Ilya! Don't know why.....? Selling Urals maybe? Ilya promised to do things better than CSMI. Funny, he now does things exactly the same. Yeah Becky, yeah Vance, I know, I know, I know why vance was sent to Russia!




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