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#16 wyowillys46

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Posted 02 October 2006 - 04:23 PM

Hey DaveO,
You might want to install a grease drain plug opposite the zerk (Zerk on left  side and drain on the right). That way you can just take out the plug and grease away. The old stuff will come out the hole and there's no danger of pushing the seals off the bearings. That was how most of the motors and pumps were setup on my ship. Just an idea.
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#17 Ken Ulrich

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Posted 02 October 2006 - 04:35 PM

Jumpin on the fruit, I knew Chicago had bad air ...But...oh for get it....Ken :feelssogood:  ;)

#18 DaveO

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Posted 02 October 2006 - 07:12 PM

Good thought Wyo, don't think it will be necessary though...I'll explain in a minute...Took a trip to the bearing house and explained my situation, found the correct thrust  bearing, called an 'angular contact' bearing, it's the same dimensions as the standard 6004 2RS.This means the adapter housing can be used without too much work. The part # is 7004, it's a precision bearing and pretty pricey, around $80. It won't be in till Wed. This bearing is a non-sealed type, I've never seen a thrust bearing that was sealed though...This is good because it provides the perfect place for the grease to exit to, behind the cam gear in the engine, where it will melt and mix into the oil, such a small amount will be no biggie for the oil. As Bill stated the rear grease seal is a fractional size, 36.5 mm, it wasn't available so I got a double lipped 37 mm part # 9714, shouldn't be hard to clean 1/2 mm off the diameter to get it to fit, it is slightly thinner than the stock one, I don't care as long as it seals, and it will. Since you can't get a sealing thrust bearing, a zerk or something, must be provided for lubing,.... here's what I did:

After looking at the adapter, you'll notice that it's a lightweight casting, with all unnecessary stock removed. So, in order to get a galley into the bearings, I had to fill in 2 of the open webbed areas. I used an aluminum alloy welding rod, which melts at a lower temp than the parent metal, which is a decided advantage for this stuff.... MAP gas works well ....oxy-acetylene is waaaaay too hot, I believe it would be fine to use JB weld or similar, just maybe cut some grooves into the inside walls of the hole to get a good mechanical bond also...

Here's a web to be filled, the hole at 11 o'clock, this hole only needs to filled about 3/8" deep but I filled a bit more

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#19 DaveO

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Posted 02 October 2006 - 07:18 PM

Here's the other one to be filled....My criteria for choosing this location was, a. needed to be on left side of the engine and accessible, and b. be above the centerline, so gravity can work the grease down, this pretty much just left the area above the left attaching stud.

the hole to be filled on the engine side of adapter, the shiny one at 2 o'clock...

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#20 DaveO

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Posted 02 October 2006 - 07:20 PM

Here's the alternator side one at 11 o'clock filled in....

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#21 DaveO

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Posted 02 October 2006 - 07:21 PM

and the engine side one, at 2 o'clock, filled in...

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#22 DaveO

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Posted 02 October 2006 - 07:30 PM

I then drilled the galley through from the outside face of the flange. When centered on the flange end, the galley enters the bearing cavity slightly to the rear of dead center between the bearing sets. I used a Dremel to cut a small elongation in the hole so the galley fills the area between the bearings. There is a spacer between the 2 bearing sets, so there is room for the grease to enter the roller parts, provided you remove the seal on the front of the  6004 2RS standard bearing...

the zerk....

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#23 DaveO

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Posted 02 October 2006 - 07:34 PM

Here's one showing where the galley enters the bearing cavity, with the old, rear, 6004 2RS in place for reference.... I'll finish showing the rest of the upgrade when the thrust bearing comes in Wednesday....Thank You

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#24 wyowillys46

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Posted 02 October 2006 - 10:04 PM

For some reason I can't open any of your pics Dave. The link to a page full of html gobblygook.
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#25 DaveO

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Posted 02 October 2006 - 10:17 PM

wyowillys46, on Oct 2 2006, 08:04 PM, said:

For some reason I can't open any of your pics Dave. The link to a page full of html gobblygook.
  :huh: sorry, don't know what to say????...you should at least see the thumbnails, I posted them the regular way using the 'attachment' button....I can see them..
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#26 Ed Paynter

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Posted 03 October 2006 - 02:06 AM

Outstanding work, DaveO!
Have you guys considered one the sleeve adhesive LokTites when installing the bearings?  sorry to hear of this new alternator problem!  
total loss may come into vogue again! B)

BTW, did I tell you guys my new Honda 250 scooter has a 400 watt alternator?? :D
33Amps and it's about the size of the Denso's adaptor....
without the Denso!

Actually it looks to be about the same size as a short 12 oz. can of tuna!

it has an external control module about the size of a cigarette pack and a finned rectifier thats about the size of a paperback book, but these can be mounted just about anywhere on the bike.

Flywheel alternators.....you gotta love 'em!

ed
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#27 dwight

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Posted 03 October 2006 - 07:01 AM

wyowillys46, on Oct 2 2006, 10:04 PM, said:

For some reason I can't open any of your pics Dave. The link to a page full of html gobblygook.
If you're using Firefox, you'll want to right-click the picture and use the "View Image" selection.

Good luck,

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#28 greenmachine

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Posted 03 October 2006 - 09:39 AM

Good work Dave_O  , as usual.  Good pics and details.

I'm looking forward to the next episode in the unending alternator-of-doom series.....

Seems like a reasonable set up. Bearings. Grease. Seals. What more could a gear-head desire?   I don't understand how the front thrust bearing will retain it's grease with the hot oil spraying it from the timing gear side. This is not the only thing I don't understand. Actually there isn't much that I DO understand now that I think about it.....

;-)
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#29 wyowillys46

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Posted 03 October 2006 - 10:31 AM

Firefox was the problem.
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#30 DaveO

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Posted 03 October 2006 - 11:25 AM

Thanks for the kudos Fellers....it may be a little premature though, we'll see how it all goes together... The numbers looked good enough to try it anyhow ,you know, nothing ventured, nothing gained and all that ... As for the oil on the thrust bearing, I'd rather have some oil getting to it. (As you may, or may not, know, the cam gear has a pressurized oil galley spraying onto it, there will be some residual oil spray making it up to the alternator gear, but I don't think it's a lot) The way they're set up now, with the sealed bearings, is no good...it may have been better for them to use unsealed ones so they at least got SOME lube, the grease in mine was baked into carbon clots, which were on the way to drying into carbon chips. The guy at the bearing house agreed that I should at least try to use a thrust bearing in this application, due to the helical cut drive gear and its' inherent lateral loading. I have a copy, and reviewed, Lee Papes' original (19 Jan. '02) blueprint for the adapter. He doesn't specify bearing types to be used in it, so maybe the implementation was left to whomever built it, and they dropped the ball, I dunno....Lee probably would though. The main reason for the adapter at the time was to be able to use SOME/ANY different alternator, that wouldn't self destruct like the 35A model.... the thrust loading issue, due to the higher amp output,(never heard of it with the 14A model didja?) hadn't reared its' ugly head as far yet, so wasn't the main consideration...It could also be they saw the price of the thrust bearing and balked, the proper bearing probably costs about the same as the adapter itself... I believe Ed Paynter's thinking to use a rare earth permanent magnet embedded in the flywheel would be the way to go, ...inductance-style! I'd try it if I had the money and wherewithall...I'll finish the posting when the other parts get here, maybe write it up as a how-to article, if it works OK.
Thanks Again
Dave O
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