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1960 kmz 750 ignition set up


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#16 SafetyBob

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Posted 04 June 2017 - 12:03 PM

RP,
Amen!!!!
Stay Safe,
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#17 jester 303

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Posted 04 June 2017 - 03:04 PM

ile  add a big yes to that as well :smile:  I put all the old points coil etc  back on my bike I had the battery on charge all morning as well . I had left the the points set as I had taken them off and I haven't even touched. any of the settings on my replacement 302 carbs which are on . connected up the basic ignition curcit and hay  presto ! it started yes it did :smile: well only for 6 seconds :huh2: but that made my day . when my new points etc arrive  I can have  a better go .  thanks all for your ears :smileywaving:

#18 luca.stere

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Posted 05 June 2017 - 12:06 AM

Meanwhile: https://www.youtube....5grxnhx1np4tg0k

Electronic ignition from a scooter.

#19 Eastwest

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Posted 05 June 2017 - 05:02 AM

Hi.    


https://m.youtube.co...h?v=N9qlawIfhFY

#20 Tad Haggard

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Posted 08 June 2017 - 08:42 AM

Hi All,
Jester, how did you go? I changed fuel and filled the tank, hooked up a 12V battery from a mercedes V8, Made new leads from new materials and when I checked them with the multimeter I thought I would check the coil to see if that was the problem,I was never happy with the spark anyway, 3.5 Ohms, OK, and 8,500 Ohms, Not OK. and that is out of the box, brand new. Maybe we bought a couple of the same batch. got in touch with a Harley mechanic on the coast and he is sending me a new big twin coil that someone upgraded from on their EVO, Supposedly this will do the trick. If that doesn't do the trick I will replace my points but leave out the rotor and cap and just trigger the Harley coil with the points, I will get manual advance back with that set-up. On the bright side I know a ######load more about ignition than I did before all this and I'm not disappointed about that (thankyou the RI brains trust and Ruffian in the shed).
Cheers
Tad

#21 jester 303

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Posted 08 June 2017 - 04:37 PM

hi tad . I didn't get far at all with the electronic ignition kit . the center adapter and rotor cap  was such a rough fit for my model it would have never worked properly so I went back to the original set up it did even start up but only for a few seconds . I am waiting for new points  condenser and advance and retard ignition cable to come fingers crossed this week end . I was thinking about a better coil . doint know  if some thing like a iron head sportster coil might  work. think there 6 volt . also I need to get information on carb set up as I brought new pair of k302's and not set them up yet or not sure how to more to learn . any way good luck with yours tad keep at it mate . cheers jester

#22 racepres

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Posted 08 June 2017 - 08:34 PM

I don't recall any 6v Ironheads..But...fear not...the coil will work just fine

#23 luca.stere

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Posted 09 June 2017 - 03:36 AM

A very good coil tested by me which is working on 6Volts is the Honda GL1100 1978 coil with points ignition. Very good spark even when using with 6V, below you can see the model:


http://motorist.ro/d...=4447&mode=view


This coil is for points ignition and it has 8-9 ohm resistance on the primary winding.

#24 racepres

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Posted 09 June 2017 - 07:32 AM

View Postluca.stere, on 09 June 2017 - 03:36 AM, said:

A very good coil tested by me which is working on 6Volts is the Honda GL1100 1978 coil with points ignition. Very good spark even when using with 6V, below you can see the model:


http://motorist.ro/d...=4447&mode=view


This coil is for points ignition and it has 8-9 ohm resistance on the primary winding.

A good working coil inexpensively. That is good. I prefer the Dual tower H-D coil for Convenience. Ensure the Points model is Chosen, and it works fine also.

#25 jester 303

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Posted 09 June 2017 - 10:28 AM

thanks good advice I will keep them both in mind . I not sure where I got the idear that all old iron head sportsters  where 6 volt  still seems strange that 12volt coils off points  ignition bikes  work on 6 volt . you live  and learn :huh2:

#26 racepres

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Posted 10 June 2017 - 08:56 AM

View Postjester 303, on 09 June 2017 - 10:28 AM, said:

thanks good advice I will keep them both in mind . I not sure where I got the idear that all old iron head sportsters  where 6 volt  still seems strange that 12volt coils off points  ignition bikes  work on 6 volt . you live  and learn :huh2:

The original "hot rod" coil. Increase the Primary input, increase the secondary output!!! equals higher output coil...till they get overheated and fail!!

#27 Tad Haggard

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Posted 10 June 2017 - 05:47 PM

OK. I'll reveal my hand here. Tad the apprentice.
"increase the Primary input",
I assume this means decrease the resistance, ie less Ohms. Also, is it correct that it is the difference between the Primary and Secondary Windings resistance that dictates the size (or volume) of the output? If this is so, is it because Points are more robust that the Ohms are able to be greater therefore less current entering and a greater or higher ratio between the windings and more "BANG". Next, what exactly causes the heat buildup?
It has become obvious to me that the more I understand about the way something does work the more likely I am to accurately diagnose why it doesn't. I am miles ahead of where I was just a short while ago, I only rewired a motorcycle for the first time a matter of months ago so naturally I am  fairly keen to have the bugger go, it's an esteem thing.
Cheers
Tad

#28 Vance Blosser

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Posted 11 June 2017 - 08:20 AM

I believe he stated it backwards, in that some hot rodders would use a 6 volt coil on a 12 volt car, getting a hotter spark. Increasing the primary (from 6 volts to 12) will increase the secondary output...until the coil burns up.

Your case is reverse. A 12 volt coil will produce a spark at 6 volts but the spark will be about half of what the coil would normally produce. On some engines the reduced spark is still enough to do the job. The coil should last a long time as it is running at lower than designed levels. You might have to change the condenser as the difference in resistance of the coil may cause the points to burn.

To further confuse the issue, before modern electronic ignitions were common a lot of car makers would put an 8 volt coil in a 12 volt car. When running a ballast resistor was in series with the coil input reducing the voltage to the proper level. But when the starter is cranked a relay bypasses the resistor, running the 8 volt coil on 12 volts to boost the output for better cold starting. As soon as you release the starter the resistor was back on the job. If the car got so it started easily but died as soon as you released the key, it almost always meant the resistor had burnt out or come unplugged. An easy fix but it confused a lot of shade tree mechanics.

#29 racepres

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Posted 11 June 2017 - 08:46 AM

View PostVance Blosser, on 11 June 2017 - 08:20 AM, said:

I believe he stated it backwards, in that some hot rodders would use a 6 volt coil on a 12 volt car, getting a hotter spark. Increasing the primary (from 6 volts to 12) will increase the secondary output...until the coil burns up.

Your case is reverse. A 12 volt coil will produce a spark at 6 volts but the spark will be about half of what the coil would normally produce. On some engines the reduced spark is still enough to do the job. The coil should last a long time as it is running at lower than designed levels. You might have to change the condenser as the difference in resistance of the coil may cause the points to burn.

To further confuse the issue, before modern electronic ignitions were common a lot of car makers would put an 8 volt coil in a 12 volt car. When running a ballast resistor was in series with the coil input reducing the voltage to the proper level. But when the starter is cranked a relay bypasses the resistor, running the 8 volt coil on 12 volts to boost the output for better cold starting. As soon as you release the starter the resistor was back on the job. If the car got so it started easily but died as soon as you released the key, it almost always meant the resistor had burnt out or come unplugged. An easy fix but it confused a lot of shade tree mechanics.

No I said the same thing...More Primary input..More voltage.... increase input ... whatever..
I was Not concerned with nor addressing Resistance.

I do also believe that the putting of 6v onto a 12v coil will reduce secondary output...It seems it would have to.

Putting the proper components together should result in success.. it is when one deviates [for whatever reason] that problems ensue.

On a 6v system, I may be tempted to run 2ea 12v coils in parallel...will bring the resistance down ...but, I do Not know how it might affect coil output!!!
In my Feeble brain...it is worth a try..
Probably better...again, to stick with proven components...

#30 luca.stere

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Posted 11 June 2017 - 09:28 AM

View PostVance Blosser, on 11 June 2017 - 08:20 AM, said:


Your case is reverse. A 12 volt coil will produce a spark at 6 volts but the spark will be about half of what the coil would normally produce. On some engines the reduced spark is still enough to do the job. The coil should last a long time as it is running at lower than designed levels. You might have to change the condenser as the difference in resistance of the coil may cause the points to burn.

Exactly!

Like I said before I have tested this Honda points coil with very good results: very good start with both cold or hot engine, always the same.

Using a 12V coil on a 6V engine it is not a problem, it will not overheat. The real problem is if the 12V coil is good enough to ensure spark when using with 6V.




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