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1960 kmz 750 ignition set up


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#1 jester 303

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Posted 29 May 2017 - 01:41 PM

hi all . i am getting well bogged under in problems with a new electronic ignition kit that  i have just brought for my 1960 kmz 750m sv model . i have followed the u tube link recomended to me for fitting the kit . even tho its in russian  i can stil roughly follow whats happening . but  as the kit fits different models . the u tube link is on a later OHV  bike . with a nice crank inspection hole to check for TDC etc   but my model has no such thing so for days now the kits been on and off  turned up side down this way and that . the bike wants to fire but spits back and kicks back . how the hell can I find how to set it up in the right spot I can not even be sure I got it in TDC  right  please can some body help ive now watched  loads of you tube bits but none of real help .

#2 jim.mt10

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Posted 29 May 2017 - 01:48 PM

Hi, Jester
  I don't know which type of ignition you have, but you can find TDC by GENTLY feeling or observing
piston position through the spark-plug hole to give yourself a rough idea.
  Good luck
   Jim

#3 jester 303

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Posted 29 May 2017 - 02:13 PM

thanks mate ihave tried that but i must be getting it wrong some how . every time i try setting it up it still  kicks back  i have put a pic of the unit ive got hope it comes out . i did get the bike to fire up for about  7 seconds when i had the points iginition still fitted but as the new unit arrived it took them off think ing   big in provment :huh2:

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#4 jim.mt10

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Posted 29 May 2017 - 04:18 PM

Hi, Jester
  I have the same ignition on an MT10/36 Dnepr and I've got to say that I have never worked on a flat-head
but on my bike the whole ignition plate is about 60 degrees anti-clockwise from what yours appears to
be at in your photo.
  Is it possible to move it around CCW and catch 2 screw-holes in the engine block?
  Does the 750 sv have the flats on the end of the shaft to locate the rotor?
   Good luck, you are probably getting close and the longer it takes, the more we learn!
  Jim

#5 jester 303

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Posted 29 May 2017 - 04:52 PM

HI JIM . that is one thing that has been a worry to me that ime getting the  ignition plate setting wrong I have taken it off so many times now and moved it round I for get where I started from . but ile  try your setting and see what happens . if I under stand what you ask . I had to use the adapter that comes with the kit to locate the rotor sorry if ime not making sence  its a big learn ing curve for me .   and thanks for your idea

#6 Tad Haggard

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Posted 01 June 2017 - 01:46 AM

Hi Jester,
This is really weird, at the same time as you I have been endeavoring to install an Electronic Ignition into my 6 Volt M72 Flathead 750, I am having exactly the same problems as you, I feel we will both have exactly the same solution (when it comes). Just over an hour ago I had the bike running, first time in 18 months, words cannot describe the satisfaction I felt when it fired and ran, slowly, had to keep the revs up to keep it going. Did the choke juggle and throttle twist to keep it "alive" . When I was convinced it would idle I attempted to adjust the "puck" as it is referred to in some circles, to speed up the idle so it did not need human  intervention.  Finding TDC is a bitch and was impossible until I got hold of one of those uber cheap LED torches that is basically to narrow and good for nothing except fitting into a spark  plug hole. No reflection back at you to make the piston hard to see.
I have checked for spark and found it to be intermittent and quite feeble , a check with a multimeter showed that the included leads were U.S. and the NOS braided variety were equally dodgy. New plugs (NGK B6HS) and some cloth covered CJ750 Leads courtesy of Ben at Sidecar-pro that tested 100% serviceable was what did the trick.  I am convinced that I have an electrical problem and, being naive to electrics, it will prove to be something simple like Earth. Other than that I beg, implore etc. that you let me know what solves this conundrum,  assuming of course that you get there before me. I would maybe offer a relative in matrimony if I had an available one, I will also promise faithfully to let you know what it is that solves this should I get there first. I have done all the usual things, rewired the bike completely, swapped out as many globes as possible with LEDs and renewed ignition switch, battery, generator(G414), regulator(P302), brake light, fuse holder, brake switch, basically everything and still the bastard won't go.
I will test Coil with multimeter and if that proves ok and the earth direct from the battery does not work then I will get the Puck out and search for  any physical damage in the electronics. I am sure there is a way of testing it on the bench and I will endeavor to do that. Failing that I can see no other choice but to go insane.
Cheers
Tad Haggard

#7 racepres

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Posted 01 June 2017 - 07:18 AM

To both of you.
I cut my teeth on Points...and trust them.
On a New Build, many times I still get it running on the "Stock" ignition system..especially if it is Points. Once sorted as far as Starting, Idle, running out... then and only then, do I change ignition systems.
After all, the ignition is just a reliability/maintenance item...a spark is a spark...makes it Run!!! I don't care what anyone tells ya!!!

#8 jester 303

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Posted 01 June 2017 - 11:28 AM

hi there Tad . nice to hear from a fellow suffer er    well I have to say I haven't been in my bike shed for day or so now I have tried to re group all the info ive got so far and have another onslaught on this  come ing sat  .ive had my  bike for a good year taken bits off  cleaned up  bits . but the wire ing harness was a right mess  so with the help off the guys on the forurm  I have plucked the minds  of those in the know for help . 1 st  off mine is just rigged up with a basic ignition curcit to get it to fire I made sure I had a spark with the old coil and points in and like you I was so over joyed when I got it to  fire up but only for around 7 seconds . I had brought a new set of carbs as well which must of helped . may be it would have been wiser to have got it running on the points set up before I took them off . now like you I am none the wiser what ive  done  . I know a few basics but have had to ask around  I  followed a y tube  link but its Russian followed the pictures and copy,ed what he dus  fitting wise with the new unit but spark it dus  and a good one but the time ing  is way out and till I get round to  sorting that out  or work it out  the whole thing has flat lined  . so I will by all means  let you know  . ps  some good advice there from marty  regards points to both of us :wink:

#9 SafetyBob

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Posted 03 June 2017 - 02:50 PM

All,
Still run the stock points and candle type set up on my K-750 flatty.
Starts and runs like a top.
There were millions of these putting all over the globe in rain, sleet, mud and snow. I think KMZ had a bunch of engineers that no doubt know much more than I do about these machines, so I did not change it.

For my OHV's I do run the electronic puck modules for the hotter spark with our garbage gas here, but keep the mixing bowl of doom in the hack..
Just my 2 cents.....
Stay Safe,
SB#3
Dnepr- So Much Fun- It's addictive!
MT-11 Solo- "Nadia"
MT-11 "Yellow Bear"
MT-9 "Boo Bear"
K-750 Flathead
MT-11 "Gumbo"
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Ural Patrol
95 Ural Tourist

#10 SafetyBob

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Posted 03 June 2017 - 02:55 PM

I do have 1 thought after looking at the box your set up came in.
That is the same type I put on my OHV models.  I know on my 12v bikes, they will not turn on and spark with less than a good strong battery and a full 12v input.

Just a thought.
SB#3
Dnepr- So Much Fun- It's addictive!
MT-11 Solo- "Nadia"
MT-11 "Yellow Bear"
MT-9 "Boo Bear"
K-750 Flathead
MT-11 "Gumbo"
Ural M 70 Solo
Ural Patrol
95 Ural Tourist

#11 jester 303

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Posted 03 June 2017 - 03:50 PM

hi all think I have concluded or should it be de luded, to day  that ime just make ing more problems for my self . I have spent all bloody day wit that ignition kit and got no where , . one problem I have noticed  is the center pick up come wheel thing  is off center due to the flimsy  adapter bolt surplied with the kit  so I have taken it all off and I am going to putt the points back on and try and get it set up that way .   then later as my in the know buddies have said  try   again with the kit

#12 jester 303

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Posted 03 June 2017 - 04:31 PM

good point about the  battery ile make sure mine is fully charged  :cool:

#13 Tad Haggard

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Posted 03 June 2017 - 06:15 PM

Hello to all and thanks for your input.  I have come to the conclusion that it is a Sherlock Holmes situation "discount everything impossible and what is left, no matter how improbable , will be the solution"  or something along those lines.  I also had a problem with the adapter for the end of the cam and manufactured one out of a piece of pipe some stainless sheet and a bolt brazed together and trimmed and filed, works excellently. The fitting is not accurate so shims are needed when attaching it to locate it centrally then a gap of 0.25mm is achievable at the trigger point. I have also agree that the battery could be the problem, I took a leaf out of your book Jester and rigged up a temporary ignition circuit to get it started so disconnecting the 6V and using 12V is no problem and the spark is not strong now even with battery at 6.8V, I'll have to check which plugs to use. I will also change the fuel as what's in there is probably past its use by date.
If none of that makes a difference then clearly none of that is the problem.
On the bright side I am getting a good workout kicking the #@&%#$. over endlessly, and I am getting real good at finding TDC.
Good luck Jester and once again thanks to the brains trust.
Tad

#14 jester 303

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Posted 04 June 2017 - 04:58 AM

hi tad  . yes the adapter is not a good fit at all and I will have to get a friend of mine to modifie it some what  if I am going to stand a chance of it doing its job properly my foot is flipping ache ing  to day with all that kicking  it over . and another thing I really sopose you get what you pay for at the end of the day . I belive some where on the forum some one in the USA was working on a new electronic ignition unit to fit the KMZ 750 m which would be of much better build wise . but last nite  I have placed a order for new set of points condenser and a advance retard cable  . so when that arrives ile  start with that . one thing I have got well confused with is 6 volt battery,s I have had a fare old problem getting one just for rigging up test circuit mine is a YUASA 6 VOLT 6.5AMP and not sure if that is any where as good as I really need ,. cheers all

#15 racepres

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Posted 04 June 2017 - 08:29 AM

A points ignition won't care if you have 3 volts or 20 volts. long as you have the proper Coil!!
Electronic units Are Voltage Specific...and the coil must match the ignition!!
If you notice, the coil is critical!! Must be correct for the system. Again...I trust Points..
Electronic Ignitions May [maybe] make a Hotter Spark..I don't need it!!
My Dnepr is a 1 Kick rig!!




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