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What Is It? Neval/Dnepr


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#1 ARozanski

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Posted 11 July 2011 - 05:47 PM

Okay, Cold War Trophies and I have been going back and forth on this, so I'd thought I'd throw the pics out for all to see.

Titled as a 1981 Neval, has all Neval literature, decals and identification plates. Has front brake parking brake, 12 volt electronics, manual timing advance, Dellorto (I think) carbs.

Front ID plate, on steering stem, says it is a model MT10-36; however, from CWT told me, it shouldn't be that, so who knows?

I added the air deflectors and deep sump oil pan. It has a New Hampshire inspection sticker from 1997, and CWT indicated that Nevals never came into America directly, so I wonder if it wandered down from Canada and found a new home?

Let the discussion begin!

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1981 Neval/Dnepr, 2002 H-D Fatboy

#2 ARozanski

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Posted 11 July 2011 - 05:47 PM

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1981 Neval/Dnepr, 2002 H-D Fatboy

#3 ARozanski

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Posted 11 July 2011 - 05:48 PM

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1981 Neval/Dnepr, 2002 H-D Fatboy

#4 JustTroItIn

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 06:05 AM

I was under the impression that Nevals where just rebadged Dnepr's.  Your bike does has two wheel drive, so I don't think it's an MT10-36.  Differences from my bike I immediately notice include the air box (though I do have the oil bath, just a different type), electrical switches, and instrument cluster (I only have a speedo and my key is where your tach is).  Everything else looks identical, including the valve covers with the five ribs (as opposed the three that I see on many of the later bikes), and the square turn signals (again, round on the later bikes).

I would say ya got a Dnepr.

Here's a pic of my MT10-36.

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1980 Dnepr MT10-36
1971 BMW R60/5
1995 Ducati 900SS CR
2005 GasGas 250EC
1993 Husqvarna TE-350

#5 OldSkool

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 06:12 AM

I dont know but it is one great looking Bike
MY DNEPR PAGE

DNEPR MT 11

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#6 ARozanski

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 06:27 AM

View PostOldSkool, on 12 July 2011 - 06:12 AM, said:

I dont know but it is one great looking Bike

Thanks! I haven't done much to it (other than the top end) so far.

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I was under the impression that Nevals where just rebadged Dnepr's. Your bike does has two wheel drive, so I don't think it's an MT10-36. Differences from my bike I immediately notice include the air box (though I do have the oil bath, just a different type), electrical switches, and instrument cluster (I only have a speedo and my key is where your tach is). Everything else looks identical, including the valve covers with the five ribs (as opposed the three that I see on many of the later bikes), and the square turn signals (again, round on the later bikes).

I would say ya got a Dnepr.

Here's a pic of my MT10-36.

Yeah, I thought they were rebadged Dneprs as well. CWT will chime in, hopefully. My understanding was that the Neval received upgraded electrics and carburation during the 're-making' process.

Your dogs look quite at home there  :biggrin:
1981 Neval/Dnepr, 2002 H-D Fatboy

#7 JustTroItIn

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 07:28 AM

View PostARozanski, on 12 July 2011 - 06:27 AM, said:

My understanding was that the Neval received upgraded electrics and carburation during the 're-making' process.

I put BMW coils and carbs on my bike but it's still a Dnepr.   :wink:   Yours is very sharp.
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1980 Dnepr MT10-36
1971 BMW R60/5
1995 Ducati 900SS CR
2005 GasGas 250EC
1993 Husqvarna TE-350

#8 Cold War Trophies

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 12:04 PM

Mr. Roz, as you asked and per our discussions, it is hard to say exactly what model you have.  But by model year titled, it cannot be an MT10-36, that model was discontinued in the mid 1970s and replaced with the MT10-32.  Only the MT11, MT16, MV650M and MV650M1 were made in the 1980s.  A motor with manual spark advance was also not used in the MT10 series of bikes, they all had the automatic spark advancer.  No MT10 series ever came with a powered sidecar wheel, so the back end and sidecar of your bike has been changed, unless it was an MV750 or MT12 that had a OHV motor installed, and this is a possibility due to the motor variant you have.

I also know this bike is potentially a parts bike, there are a lot of parts from other models, but for the most part the body parts on the motorcycle section are MT10 series.

There is an eBay company/person selling blank VIN plates from all sorts of car and motorcycle manufacturers.  They are reproduction VIN plates.  It is possible someone bought something like this and simply because importing a vehicle into USA is not easy when done the right way, so they could have brought it in as a box of parts and titled it as whatever they wanted to claim it is and at some point found the VIN plate.  KMZ put VIN plates on all their bikes according to country of destinations rules and maid out according to customer, it was always a stamped aluminum plate with black etchings, and the motor and frame number physically stamped into the plate.  

A good giveaway to what model frame this could be, single wheel or powered sidecar wheel model, would be to look at the back of the right rear of frame to see if there is a passenger footpeg on the frame, or if it looks like it was cut off.  If its not there, and there is no evidence of the peg frame mount being removed(most people can't cut and grind it that well or even use body filler to pretty up the cut/grinding marks), then it is a purpose built powered sidecar frame.  The differential for the powered sidecar will almost always hit the passenger peg mount and prevent its proper fitment to the swing arm so you have to cut it off to convert a single wheel drive frame to powered sidecar.  The only models with powered sidecars were; K750V, MV750, MT12, MV650, and MT16.

The sidecar frame is most likely an early MV650 frame, or at least the dogleg is from the later models from the 80s.  I cannot see the sidecar frame except the step, but when the MV650M came out in 1980, it used the welded steel step as used on the MT11 since it is based on the 11, your bike has the much more aesthetically pleasing bolted on aluminum step of earlier models.  It is possible to have one of the earlier mentioned models sidecar frame and the later dogleg.  The pre-MV650 doglegs have a rounded tube, not the welded 90* angled tube.  The sidecar body would also be from a powered wheel model.  While you can use a single wheel model on powered, there is 3 ply bracing, some gussets, and a backing strip welded into the trunk floor of the powered wheel models since the single wheel model's sidecar frame is shorter and the rubber shocks mount in the cut away where all the normal bracing is at, without the bracing the powered wheel models generally break the sidecar body since the road forces bouncing on the unbraced single wall sheet metal where the rubbers bolt through are about 4-6 inches further back on the trunk floor, a very structurally weak area if pushing up from the bottom.

I am admittedly unfamiliar with the Neval bikes since they are a UK market bike and I'm in USA.  Export models could be ordered with certain options if it could be arranged on the assembly line.  Custom additions cannot clash with certain production features.  Like frame types, engine casings, some electrical stuff, etc, otherwise they generally need a new assembly line to meet the needs.  

The MT9 Type 2 motor was the last OHV motor KMZ made that had manual advance.  Yes, the MT8(aka K650) also have it, but this bike never made it past production prototype stage and today to find one is like finding a lost needle in a pile of needles.  The MT9 originally was the first OHV KMZ motor to have the automatic spark advancer, but because of problems with the production line, the manual spark advance from the SV motos was used on this motor as well to meet production quotas, it is the Type 2 motor with manual, Type 1 with automatic.  Contrary to belief the T2 is a newer MT9 model then the T1.  The T2 was discontinued before the MT10 motor came out.  In addition, the cam on the T2 is slightly different them the one used for the auto advancer, so to continue production of that unusual cam would not make since once there was no need for it, in fact today it is all but impossible to find an MT9 T2 cam and they are upgraded to newer specs.  Could Neval have ordered MT10s with manual spark advance?  Yes.  It might have been possible for a brief time if enough parts were on hand to fill an order too, however, the MT10 and especially the MT10-36 assembly line for motors and castings were different then the MT9, so I think it probably did not work out that way since it would create a big headache in assembly, and I don't think Neval was buying thousands of bikes a year from KMZ.  Also, why would anyone in a western country want a manual spark advance when all it does is cause problems, such features went extinct in Japanese and western bikes in the 1950s with a handful carrying on into the 60s.

The heads on the motor are MT10.  The cylinders are either the later MT11 export/MV650 jugs, or they are true MT10-36.  You can tell by the crushed pushrod tube rubbers.  The 10-36, export models, and MV650, as well as later 1990s models have the high compression cylinder which is shorter.  When people use a head assembly, or the tubes, from a standard domestic market model on one of these short cylinders they rarely know you need to set the compression collars back a few mm so they do not crush the rubbers when the head is torqued.  Crushed rubbers eventually crack and leak.

But over all, your bike looks nicely assembled and cared for.  I would not worry too much about what it really is.  Almost all Dnepr parts of the OHV motors will interchange, those that appear not to might need to have additional parts needed to hold them.

C
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#9 ARozanski

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 05:57 PM

More pics, weld quality, sidecar frame, rear fender.

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1981 Neval/Dnepr, 2002 H-D Fatboy

#10 ARozanski

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 05:59 PM

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1981 Neval/Dnepr, 2002 H-D Fatboy

#11 ARozanski

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 06:00 PM

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Also - the carbs are indeed Dellorto, model number VHBT 30.
1981 Neval/Dnepr, 2002 H-D Fatboy

#12 Hal

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 09:19 PM

I rode  Neval for a few years, and after extensive research, talking to a lot of in-the-know guys, mine appeared to have a lot of proof marks that indicated it was originally built for some special government organization. I found mine in NH. I sold it a few years later when I needed a roof on the place. I miss it. I'll dig out some pictures and post them. H.

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I wish I had more space, more time and more money!

#13 yatesfly

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Posted 26 September 2011 - 11:20 AM

Hello this doesnt help with what it is but. In the fifth picture of the second group it shows the seat aera with the seat off. The front mount parts for the seat looks like 3 pieces and I need the bottom piece. Ihave a bench seat and 2 of the front brackets  and the saddle that goes on the fender. In the front it looks like to me that part is made up of 3 parts I have 2. also I assume there is a spring of some sort. The picture looks like my MT-16 (assuming it is a MT-16) it has a reconstruced title. I have used the tractor seats for 9000 km and my back says change it. Does anyone have some of those parts? Oh my parts manuel shows 2 frame mounts for the seat aera and mine looks like this picture. Thanks Dennis Yates
dnepr MT16,64 hd xlch,71hd xlh, 82 honda gl500

#14 Cold War Trophies

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Posted 26 September 2011 - 01:15 PM

View Postyatesfly, on 26 September 2011 - 11:20 AM, said:

Hello this doesnt help with what it is but. In the fifth picture of the second group it shows the seat aera with the seat off. The front mount parts for the seat looks like 3 pieces and I need the bottom piece. Ihave a bench seat and 2 of the front brackets  and the saddle that goes on the fender. In the front it looks like to me that part is made up of 3 parts I have 2. also I assume there is a spring of some sort. The picture looks like my MT-16 (assuming it is a MT-16) it has a reconstruced title. I have used the tractor seats for 9000 km and my back says change it. Does anyone have some of those parts? Oh my parts manuel shows 2 frame mounts for the seat aera and mine looks like this picture. Thanks Dennis Yates

I have all Dnepr bench seat parts, including frame pieces and the seat.
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#15 Mike Sims

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Posted 26 September 2011 - 04:11 PM

I'm not sure if it was the case with Neval, but some Cossacks (The blanket trade name used by Satra who sold Russian bikes in the UK before Neval) were actually old stock rebuilt at the factory to export spec, then reworked again by Satra. If this was the case with Neval, then this bike could be a few years older than the registration date and could have been rebuilt twice before even reaching the 1st owner!




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