Jump to content


Sidecar Proof of Age?


  • Please log in to reply
17 replies to this topic

#1 dan3up

dan3up

    Newbie Member

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 6 posts
  • Joined:15-July 09

Posted 17 July 2009 - 05:50 AM

I own a 1981 BMW R100RT with a Ural Sidecar made to match the BMW.

This side was originally ordered from Russia in the ealy 1980's and went straight to the paint shop to have the paint match the bike.Can anyone tell me how I am able to prove to people that my sidecar is pre-war. Supposively it is from 1939.  The tire mounted on the back is in Russian along with brake light cover on the car in Russian.

#2 Rich Maund

Rich Maund

    Russian Bike Nut

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,056 posts
  • Joined:29-November 03
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Chesapeake, Va. USA
  • Interests:Anything to do with three wheels and motors!

Posted 17 July 2009 - 04:51 PM

We need detailed pics.

I seriously doubt it is pre-war. Those are rare and got used up IN the war afterrall.

Right up through the 70's Urals chairs had a very nice build quality and even has nice numbered plates riveted on with serial number and perhaps year built. In the 80's they got cheapened in many subtle ways. Trunk latch hardware being a key one I have seen.

Pics would help narrow down what era it is from. Show us what you have!
Rich Maund
Rich's Cycle Upholstery
"Your Ass Will Thank You"
2003 Ural Retro Custom Rig "Oleysia"

#3 dan3up

dan3up

    Newbie Member

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 6 posts
  • Joined:15-July 09

Posted 17 July 2009 - 08:52 PM

Okay I will take as detailed of pics as I can. It's really important to me so bare with me thru the weekend

#4 gspell68

gspell68

    Russian Bike Nut

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,704 posts
  • Joined:14-October 04
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ft. Gordon, Augusta, GA
  • Interests:Keeping at least one of these two f*(k!^6 bikes running!

Posted 17 July 2009 - 09:26 PM

Quote

Supposively it is from 1939.
I'll bet my rig against yours it's not!

Plus, does it even have a trunk?
Ural ones (built at/for the IMZ factory in Irbit, Russia) are the only ones that have a hinged trunk under the spare and have a possibility of being that old.
Dnepr sidecars (built at the KMZ factory in Kiev, Ukraine) have a trunk that can be accessed only through the sidecar seat and have been made only since about 1958. This is the one most folks seem to use on non-Soviet motorcycles.

If you have one with a trunk: Most real old ones will have a machine gun mount and may have a 1" bar as an external fender support, but not all. You'd have to look at the suspension next. They went through several variations. The first were leaf springs, then some with no suspension at all, back to leaf springs, then a torsion bar/leaf spring around 1959, after that, I'm not sure. They probably have swingarm/shocks like the Dnepr by now.

Anyhow, I wouldn't get too hung up on it. You'll probably never find the answer...
Scott Pell
gspell68@gmail.com
http://sites.google....site/foilheadz/
1951 K-750 (The Bull, БУЛ)
1962 K-750 (The Beast, БИСТ)
1959 M-72M Solo Rust Buc-Kit Bike

Sidecars are for b!#(*$.
Anyone who rides in that is automatically your b!#(*.
-Garden State

People are more violently opposed to fur than leather because it's safer to harass rich women than motorcycle gangs.
-Alexei Sayle

Real motorcycles have kickstarters and real men use them!
-Me

Cheap - Reliable - Fast
Pick any 2 and the last one won't apply!

#5 dan3up

dan3up

    Newbie Member

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 6 posts
  • Joined:15-July 09

Posted 21 July 2009 - 04:38 PM

OKAY! Ask and you shall receive gents. Here are as many pics as I can take of the old tub :) Let me know what you think the age is. The seats, windshield skirt , and tire I know are not original. I am really trying to see if this sidecar is pre-war like the original owner says it is.

http://s559.photobuc.....URAL SIDECAR/

THANKS GUYS for you time :)

#6 gspell68

gspell68

    Russian Bike Nut

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,704 posts
  • Joined:14-October 04
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ft. Gordon, Augusta, GA
  • Interests:Keeping at least one of these two f*(k!^6 bikes running!

Posted 21 July 2009 - 04:49 PM

I think it's practically brand new!
The sidecar lamps are really new and the suspension is shock dampened.

Check this out. It's what an early 1960's (NOT '67 as the ad states) Ural sidecar looks like...
http://cgi.ebay.com/...L-M...65:1|39:1
Scott Pell
gspell68@gmail.com
http://sites.google....site/foilheadz/
1951 K-750 (The Bull, БУЛ)
1962 K-750 (The Beast, БИСТ)
1959 M-72M Solo Rust Buc-Kit Bike

Sidecars are for b!#(*$.
Anyone who rides in that is automatically your b!#(*.
-Garden State

People are more violently opposed to fur than leather because it's safer to harass rich women than motorcycle gangs.
-Alexei Sayle

Real motorcycles have kickstarters and real men use them!
-Me

Cheap - Reliable - Fast
Pick any 2 and the last one won't apply!

#7 IRON NUTZ aka rlgirsch

IRON NUTZ aka rlgirsch

    Russian Bike Nut

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 232 posts
  • Joined:16-November 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:newburgh,ny/hudson valley
  • Interests:motorcycles. military aircraft ,anything mechanical

Posted 21 July 2009 - 06:18 PM

View Postdan3up, on Jul 21 2009, 05:38 PM, said:

OKAY! Ask and you shall receive gents. Here are as many pics as I can take of the old tub :) Let me know what you think the age is. The seats, windshield skirt , and tire I know are not original. I am really trying to see if this sidecar is pre-war like the original owner says it is.

http://s559.photobuc.....URAL SIDECAR/

THANKS GUYS for you time :)
the only pre-war might be the iraq /afganistan conflict,not the russian conflict ,the us/coalition one ,that sidecar looks like the same one on my 00 bavarian classic,so basiclly its recent meaning the last decade or two.89-09, especially if the lights are 12V.except for  changing the fender lights on mine its the same  sidecar.

Attached Files


EVERYTHING OLD IS NEW AGAIN OR IS IT EVERYTHING NEW IS OLD AGAIN, I GUESS ON URALS ITS BOTH

2000 ural bavarian classic w/sc

#8 IMZman

IMZman

    Russian Bike Nut

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,015 posts
  • Joined:22-December 03

Posted 21 July 2009 - 06:27 PM

That is a relatively new sidecar. Either the present owner believed what the person who sold them the sidecar said...or he is scamming you. It might be pre Iran/Afgan war....but not WWII.

Think of it this way...what idiot would attach a "pre WWII" sidecar to a 80's BMW? An original pre 40's sidecar in that condition would command a premium price and only go on a period motorcycle...no numb nutz would stick it on a modern bike.

New (like 2009 new), that sidecar and frame sells for around $2500 plus mounting costs. In the 80's probably half that or less. The "1939" thing probably came from that's how long the design has been manufactured. But just like the old VW Beetle which was produced from about the same time...there were many revisions to the design...same with the Russian bikes. From a distance they all look the same...but if you know your Russian iron...you can tell what year most of the components are from.

Sorry, but you have a late 70's to early 90's sidecar.
Bill Glaser
2002 Patrol "CYKA"
200,000+ km's since May 2002
Click here to go to: "The Unofficial URAL 750cc Service Manual"

#9 gspell68

gspell68

    Russian Bike Nut

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,704 posts
  • Joined:14-October 04
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ft. Gordon, Augusta, GA
  • Interests:Keeping at least one of these two f*(k!^6 bikes running!

Posted 21 July 2009 - 07:43 PM

Yep. I have to agree with Bill.
I could only find one with they unique sidecar step that yours has was on a late 1990's two-tone Ural Dalesman (European version of a Tourist) before they changed to left side hacks.
Scott Pell
gspell68@gmail.com
http://sites.google....site/foilheadz/
1951 K-750 (The Bull, БУЛ)
1962 K-750 (The Beast, БИСТ)
1959 M-72M Solo Rust Buc-Kit Bike

Sidecars are for b!#(*$.
Anyone who rides in that is automatically your b!#(*.
-Garden State

People are more violently opposed to fur than leather because it's safer to harass rich women than motorcycle gangs.
-Alexei Sayle

Real motorcycles have kickstarters and real men use them!
-Me

Cheap - Reliable - Fast
Pick any 2 and the last one won't apply!

#10 gspell68

gspell68

    Russian Bike Nut

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,704 posts
  • Joined:14-October 04
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ft. Gordon, Augusta, GA
  • Interests:Keeping at least one of these two f*(k!^6 bikes running!

Posted 21 July 2009 - 08:09 PM

Here's one on the left-hand side.

http://media.photobu...2008/Skaya3.jpg
Scott Pell
gspell68@gmail.com
http://sites.google....site/foilheadz/
1951 K-750 (The Bull, БУЛ)
1962 K-750 (The Beast, БИСТ)
1959 M-72M Solo Rust Buc-Kit Bike

Sidecars are for b!#(*$.
Anyone who rides in that is automatically your b!#(*.
-Garden State

People are more violently opposed to fur than leather because it's safer to harass rich women than motorcycle gangs.
-Alexei Sayle

Real motorcycles have kickstarters and real men use them!
-Me

Cheap - Reliable - Fast
Pick any 2 and the last one won't apply!

#11 IMZman

IMZman

    Russian Bike Nut

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,015 posts
  • Joined:22-December 03

Posted 21 July 2009 - 09:40 PM

Don't feel too bad Dan3up...there's a slew of folks passing these "old" looking rigs off as 1940ish "war bikes". There's a guy up the road from me with a early 1980's Dnepr rig that is painted up in WWII colors. The guy will stand there and argue with you until blue in the face that it is a 1939 Russian war rig...all because the guy that sold it to him, "said it was". He just can't face up to the fact that he was "had". So he lives in a fantasy world.

Consider yourself lucky you only got snookered on the chair. Its a fine sidecar by-the-way, better than most that cost 4X as much.
Bill Glaser
2002 Patrol "CYKA"
200,000+ km's since May 2002
Click here to go to: "The Unofficial URAL 750cc Service Manual"

#12 dan3up

dan3up

    Newbie Member

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 6 posts
  • Joined:15-July 09

Posted 22 July 2009 - 05:23 AM

So, I can deal with the fact that the sidecar is from the late 70's.  The combination is a rarity here in Cincinnati. I get plenty of head turns and smiles with the little boy seated in the sidecar.  After further inspecting I can see that the luggage tire has a '76 number on it...maybe the year right? Eitherway with the whole bike and sidecar combo (7200 miles on bike---title clear) I am really happy with the setup. Costs included 2k for it with Cob Webs and all. Then I spent $1500 on maintenance to bring it back alive. So with all this set in mind...

WHAT PRICE do you think I should place this pup at? Any Recommendations?

Thanks to ALL for the input on this

#13 IMZman

IMZman

    Russian Bike Nut

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,015 posts
  • Joined:22-December 03

Posted 22 July 2009 - 07:25 AM

Ah...now we get to the crux of the matter.


One could say it is worth what you paid for it? What did you pay for it?

Depending on the condition of the bike (bike at most if in excellent condition, $4K) and same for sidecar (excellent, 2K)...you might get $6K or less. But, like anything else...it comes down to what someone is willing to pay for it.

The "76" is the model of tire, not year of manufacture.
Bill Glaser
2002 Patrol "CYKA"
200,000+ km's since May 2002
Click here to go to: "The Unofficial URAL 750cc Service Manual"

#14 dan3up

dan3up

    Newbie Member

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 6 posts
  • Joined:15-July 09

Posted 22 July 2009 - 10:33 AM

Total expenses on the rig so far to get it respectfully road worthy and ready for a 500mile trip have cost me $3800. So if I can sell for more then good deal! :)

#15 Rich Maund

Rich Maund

    Russian Bike Nut

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,056 posts
  • Joined:29-November 03
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Chesapeake, Va. USA
  • Interests:Anything to do with three wheels and motors!

Posted 22 July 2009 - 11:32 AM

I have to agree that it is 70's vintage as well. Swing arm suspension, modern lights, etc.

What makes me think 70's though is that it still uses the older style trunk latch with the spring loaded latches. It has the welded on plate step and not the full plate more modern ones use. And it has the three bolt bracket for the fender. Also, the frame piping looks to be very nicely formed. These are thing they changed and cheapened in the 80's as their economic troubles mounted.

I got to look at a 70's Ural sidecar once that the owner KNEW was from the 70's. He had bought it new! It was about identicle to yours. A very nice sidecar!
Rich Maund
Rich's Cycle Upholstery
"Your Ass Will Thank You"
2003 Ural Retro Custom Rig "Oleysia"




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users