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cubituscubitus
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Have yo ever been to a College Kegger? The thought of thes kids drinking heavily and being armed just plain scares the heck out of me. :blush2: :flame-on!: Real ( And I don't mean knucleheads) campus security with regular campus fire type drills will I think help. Don't be surprised if it reflects in higher tuition costs.

 

 

With weapon posession comes great responsibility- something our youth of today rarely gets to experience. I think the Swiss probably drink as much as we do, and they seem to do nicely despite everyone between the ages of twenty and fifty or so being required to posess a fully automatic "assault weapon" and ammunition in their homes.

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Have yo ever been to a College Kegger? The thought of thes kids drinking heavily and being armed just plain scares the heck out of me. :blush2: :flame-on!: Real ( And I don't mean knucleheads) campus security with regular campus fire type drills will I think help. Don't be surprised if it reflects in higher tuition costs.

 

 

 

Not ALL college kids do keggers. There's no law that says they all party that way. It was years ago that my wife was in college. And went to a party university (WVU.) Back then from my own observations in her student apartment building, I'd say about a third of those folks were party-holics.

Those fools still qualified as children. No one is about to issue them guns. Many others didn't party their butts off and were doing something there besides wasting their parents money.

Many of those "kids" in college were 22 years old.

At what point do you suddenly "Cowboy Up" and become an adult?

For myself at 22, I was an E5 in the Navy and running an engineroom on a attack sub during the cold war. If anyone but my Masterchief had called me a "kid" then, I'd have punched them.

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OK - maybe not children - but college kids are not responsible adults.... that was and remians my point.

 

Hyperbole seems the only way to make a point on these subjects with some of you guys.

 

Dub

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OK - maybe not children - but college kids are not responsible adults.... that was and remians my point.

 

Hyperbole seems the only way to make a point on these subjects with some of you guys.

 

Dub

 

 

I think there's an attempt here to paint all college age people with the same brush. True, there are 20-22 year olds that can't be trusted to pour pi$$ out of a boot- same could be said for some adults of all age groups. The operative word here is "responsible". Take my own case: I'm 52 years old. I have no criminal record beyond a speeding ticket or two- none within the last 10 years. I left the military with an honorable discharge. I've been shooting since the age of about seven, and have never shot anyone. Due to my work, I've got a security background check history which goes back more than thirty years, and am entrusted to return large passenger airliners to service after repair. But- some folks don't feel comfortable with me even owning arms because drug dealers are shooting each other all the time. I think the word for this is "prejudice".

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You are right Pete - the 'right' to own a gun should be earned by responsible behaviour over a fixed period of time. Not the time it takes to run a quick background check.

 

I'd feel happy in your company knowing you had a gun (if you weren't drunk, high, pissed off with your missus or had just been fired from you only source of income and were about to lose your house).

 

Let me just say right off the bat - I trust nobody... that should make me a gun owning advocate. But for some strange reason it doesn't. I too was brought up around guns and was shooting from the age of around seven or eight - in Ireland we only had access to shotguns (12-gauge) or .22 rifles (my father had a Marlin, which I loved). Handguns were banned in the late 60s due to the hassle in Northern Ireland. I oove shooting, but feel that there are too many instances in this life where access to a gun is not a good thing for some humans - or more importantly - those around those specific humans.

 

I'll rest my case as we are essentially flogging a decomposed carcass. I won't change and neither will you guys. It must be a cultural thing - though only a part of your culture, as a lot of the population apparently disagree with the way the constitution is interpreted on this issue.

 

Not my country, not my problem. But I am entitled to an opinion - just like you guys.

 

Dub

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You are right Pete - the 'right' to own a gun should be earned by responsible behaviour over a fixed period of time. Not the time it takes to run a quick background check.

 

I'd feel happy in your company knowing you had a gun (if you weren't drunk, high, pissed off with your missus or had just been fired from you only source of income and were about to lose your house).

 

Let me just say right off the bat - I trust nobody... that should make me a gun owning advocate. But for some strange reason it doesn't. I too was brought up around guns and was shooting from the age of around seven or eight - in Ireland we only had access to shotguns (12-gauge) or .22 rifles (my father had a Marlin, which I loved). Handguns were banned in the late 60s due to the hassle in Northern Ireland. I oove shooting, but feel that there are too many instances in this life where access to a gun is not a good thing for some humans - or more importantly - those around those specific humans.

 

I'll rest my case as we are essentially flogging a decomposed carcass. I won't change and neither will you guys. It must be a cultural thing - though only a part of your culture, as a lot of the population apparently disagree with the way the constitution is interpreted on this issue.

 

Not my country, not my problem. But I am entitled to an opinion - just like you guys.

 

Dub

 

 

Dub- Amen to that :flame-on!: ! I run into people all the time who shouldn't be allowed to drive a car, let alone be trusted around weaponry. And you're right again about the cultural thing. My wife was born and raised in Russia. Firearms are few and far between there, and folks seem to get along just fine with the arrangment. Private ownership of firearms is something that is simply not part of their culture. During WWII, everybody was issued a gun.... but come the end of the war most (99%?) turned theirs in without even thinking about a need to keep it. Unlike us here in the U.S., they also seem to have a very effective police force and the people in general (when not too drunk) are a much more responsible lot than we are. However, shortly after her arrival in the States I taught her to shoot. The next thing I knew, she was sleeping with five loaded pistols under the pillow when I was away working out of town. I have her weaned down to only three now... but the idea of not having them is unthinkable to her. Sort of a security blanket, I guess, but she's not very comfortable living in all the chaos that passes for everyday life here. By the way- her father, a retired Red Army colonel thought it was a splended idea for her to learn to shoot, and thought it interesting that she had the opportunity.

 

By the way- was that Marlin a model 39 or a bolt action? :blush2:

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OK - maybe not children - but college kids are not responsible adults.... that was and remians my point.

 

Hyperbole seems the only way to make a point on these subjects with some of you guys.

 

Dub

 

Wow, way to paint thousands of people with one stereotypical brush. I own firearms. I have my CCW, and carry sometimes.

 

 

 

 

I'm also in college.

 

Maybe you need to think a little before posting Dub. :party: :P

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Howdy All,

 

I have just got to say this and then unless someone asks me a direct question I am done with this thread as Dub says we ain't going to be changing each others minds over this.

 

I guess I just get really pi$$ed off by the age that some folks are considered "children". If they are still children, why do they have a drivers license, why can they buy alcohol, why can they enlist in the armed services and yes why are they old enough to buy, carry and or use a gun and most of all WHY CAN THEY VOTE? As has been posted in this thread already for the purpose of gathering gun death statistics folks in the USA are considered "children" until they reach the age of "22". If we are to treat them as children in this regard why don't we pull from them all of the rights and privileges they now enjoy. Try doing that see what a howl you will get from these children and the liberals of this country.

 

Just as a parting shot across the bow as it were. I went into the Army at the age of 18, I was in Vietnam about 2 months after I turned 19, I served 18 months in Vietnam and was honorably discharged from the Army when I was 20 years old. At the time of my discharge from the Army, I was not legally able to buy a beer, I was not old enough to vote and the f**king gun control act of 1968 has been passed in the form that it was in at that time, after hunting and killing people for 18 months I couldn't buy a damned box of 22 shells. Now you tell me what these children have to be pi$$ed off about and why we should feel that they are not adults and shouldn't be held responsible for their actions or lack thereof.

 

 

YES!!! :party: :party: :P

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Here's an excellent article by ex-Senator Fred Thompson

 

Signs of Intelligence?

4/20/2007

Fred Dalton Thompson

 

One of the things that's got to be going through a lot of peoples' minds now is how one man with two handguns, that he had to reload time and time again, could go from classroom to classroom on the Virginia Tech campus without being stopped. Much of the answer can be found in policies put in place by the university itself.

 

Virginia, like 39 other states, allows citizens with training and legal permits to carry concealed weapons. That means that Virginians regularly sit in movie theaters and eat in restaurants among armed citizens. They walk, joke and rub shoulders everyday with people who responsibly carry firearms -- and are far safer than they would be in San Francisco, Oakland, Detroit, Chicago, New York City, or Washington, D.C., where such permits are difficult or impossible to obtain.

 

The statistics are clear. Communities that recognize and grant Second Amendment rights to responsible adults have a significantly lower incidence of violent crime than those that do not. More to the point, incarcerated criminals tell criminologists that they consider local gun laws when they decide what sort of crime they will commit, and where they will do so.

 

Still, there are a lot of people who are just offended by the notion that people can carry guns around. They view everybody, or at least many of us, as potential murderers prevented only by the lack of a convenient weapon. Virginia Tech administrators overrode Virginia state law and threatened to expel or fire anybody who brings a weapon onto campus.

 

In recent years, however, armed Americans -- not on-duty police officers -- have successfully prevented a number of attempted mass murders. Evidence from Israel, where many teachers have weapons and have stopped serious terror attacks, has been documented. Supporting, though contrary, evidence from Great Britain, where strict gun controls have led to violent crime rates far higher than ours, is also common knowledge.

 

So Virginians asked their legislators to change the university's "concealed carry" policy to exempt people 21 years of age or older who have passed background checks and taken training classes. The university, however, lobbied against that bill, and a top administrator subsequently praised the legislature for blocking the measure.

 

The logic behind this attitude baffles me, but I suspect it has to do with a basic difference in worldviews. Some people think that power should exist only at the top, and everybody else should rely on "the authorities" for protection.

 

Despite such attitudes, average Americans have always made up the front line against crime. Through programs like Neighborhood Watch and Amber Alert, we are stopping and catching criminals daily. Normal people tackled "shoe bomber" Richard Reid as he was trying to blow up an airliner. It was a truck driver who found the D.C. snipers. Statistics from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention show that civilians use firearms to prevent at least a half million crimes annually.

 

When people capable of performing acts of heroism are discouraged or denied the opportunity, our society is all the poorer. And from the selfless examples of the passengers on Flight 93 on 9/11 to Virginia Tech professor Liviu Librescu, a Holocaust survivor who sacrificed himself to save his students earlier this week, we know what extraordinary acts of heroism ordinary citizens are capable of.

 

Many other universities have been swayed by an anti-gun, anti-self defense ideology. I respect their right to hold those views, but I challenge their decision to deny Americans the right to protect themselves on their campuses -- and then proudly advertise that fact to any and all.

 

Whenever I've seen one of those "Gun-free Zone" signs, especially outside of a school filled with our youngest and most vulnerable citizens, I've always wondered exactly who these signs are directed at. Obviously, they don't mean much to the sort of man who murdered 32 people just a few days ago.

 

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=OTIwY...2U3YTU4YzNmNGE=

 

Run Fred Run! He gets my vote if he does.

 

I was going to post this same article here. Rich beat me to it.

 

Are you SERIOUSLY advocating arming schoolchildren?

 

:party:

 

Dub

 

IMO, It should be a required part of the cirriculum! :cheers:

 

Yes, I'm serious!

 

 

 

Whether you decide to carry a weapon or not, knowing how to treat, respect and operate one might just save one's own backside later in life. :wink:

 

Why do ya think they make AK-47's so easy?

 

 

 

JohnJG,

 

I pulled into Discount auto (on the scoot) a little while back, it was raining...in the parking lot was a female Discount Auto employee putting wiperblades on a customer's car. The customer, a 40ish and fit looking gentlemen, was standing (dry) under the awning with his arms crossed and one leg propped against the wall. I started to say something like...what kind of f#cking pu$$y are you?...but just gave him a "look" instead. Now, I know getting the wiper blades put on is a free service and some people want to get there monies worth...but come on. Little crap like that is what lead's to the pussification of America. I feel bad because I didn't slap the sh!t out of him. It has bugged me for weeks. I am afraid I am becoming one of the sheep. I need help. I think a road trip to SPiTS might put me on the path to recovery.

 

A 40 year old man making a young woman put wiper blades on his car, in the rain? That's just wrong, at least in terms of how I was raised. That feller deserved at least a verbal "b*tch-slap" from you...

 

Yes, America is being pussified more every day. At the current rate of overwheming pussification, and the psuufication practices of the government education camps (public schools) we'll end up psychologically neutered like the French and Swedes in no time... :P

 

A road trip to SpITS is defintely in order. :beerchug:

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Ahhh... glad to see I'm not the only one making sweeping generalisations... at least I don't follow the herd :cheers:

 

Dub

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Howdy All,

 

A while back in this discussion I questioned one of Gunny Horse-traders posts and it's reference to me. Since then Gunny has contacted me and assured me that no slight was intended, I wrote back and told him that I too meant no disrespect it's just that I didn't understand his post the way it was worded. So in the interest of furthering the discussion I have deleted my post where I questioned his post.

 

 

 

To all I also have removed my post and am replacing it with this below it better expresses what want to say. The author is unknown but the words make sense to me.

 

To Mr. Cob, I say loudly Semper Fi

W/R

Tim

 

:cheers:

 

 

Remember - A day without sunshine is like.......night!

 

GUN HISTORY

Whether you agree or not, it's an interesting lesson in history. Something to think about...

In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control. From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

------------------------------

In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

------------------------------

Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, a total of 13 million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated.

------------------------------

China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

------------------------------

Guatemala established gun control in 1964. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

------------------------------

Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

------------------------------

Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, one million “educated' people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

-----------------------------

Defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the 20th Century because of gun control: 56 million.

------------------------------

It has now been 12 months since gun owners in Australia were forced by new law to surrender 640,381 personal firearms to be destroyed by their own government, a program

costing Australia taxpayers more than $500 million dollars.

 

The first year results are now in:

Australia-wide, homicides are up 3.2 percent

Australia-wide, assaults are up 8.6 percent.

Australia-wide, armed robberies are up 44 percent (yes, 44 percent)!

In the state of Victoria alone, homicides with firearms are now up 300 percent. Note, that while the law-abiding citizens turned them in, the criminals did not, and criminals still possess their guns!) While figures over the previous 25 years showed a steady decrease in armed robbery with firearms, this has changed drastically upward in the past 12 months, since criminals now are guaranteed that their prey is unarmed. There has also been a dramatic increase in break-ins and assaults of the ELDERLY. Australian politicians are at a loss to explain how public safety has decreased, after such monumental effort, and expense was expended in successfully ridding Australian society of guns. The Australian

experience and the other historical facts above prove it. You won't see this data on the American evening news or hear our president, governors or other politicians disseminating this information. Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives and property and, yes, gun-control laws affect only the law-abiding citizens.

 

Take note my fellow Americans.....before it's too late! The next time someone talks in favor of gun control, please remind them of this history lesson.

With guns, we are 'citizens'. Without them, we are 'subjects'.

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Ahhh... glad to see I'm not the only one making sweeping generalisations... at least I don't follow the herd :huh2:

 

Dub

 

Ya know I was just funning with ya about the Swedes, right? :beer!:

 

Seriously, I took three years of Army ROTC in college before I tore up my knee and Uncle Sam said "no way" just less than a year shy of graduation and commissioning.

 

I think I learned more real world life lessons from those classes than any other college class.

 

- discipline

- teamwork

- management (and being managed)

- how to shoot

- how to salute

- how to shine a boot

- and how to properly clean a latrine... :huh2:

 

Maybe ROTC out to be part of every high school or college graduation requirements. We spend far more time teaching them wackier stuff like anti-bullying and global warming... :beerchug:

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