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Harley Union goes on strike


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Every time I see someone going on strike because they might have to pay for their health insurance, I get really ticked. I have never NOT had to pay for it. I also haven't had more than a 3% raise for several years now, and I'm pretty sure the pay scales where I work are WAY less than HD's.

 

Not feeling too sorry for either side, personally. I have no doubt that HD could afford to give more. OTOH, I'm sure HD employees can well afford their insurance premiums.

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Every time I see someone going on strike because they might have to pay for their health insurance, I get really ticked. I have never NOT had to pay for it. I also haven't had more than a 3% raise for several years now, and I'm pretty sure the pay scales where I work are WAY less than HD's.

 

Not feeling too sorry for either side, personally. I have no doubt that HD could afford to give more. OTOH, I'm sure HD employees can well afford their insurance premiums.

 

The article mentioned that the union (not the individual union employees) would have to contribute (not pay it all) to the cost of health insurance. The individual employee isn't paying it out of pocket. In exchange for this contribution, H-D was doubling their contribution toward employee 401K's. In other words, H-D is asking the union to pick up part of the cost of the health care.

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One of the areas Harley has touted is their good working relationship with the trade unions. The union, and employees, are involved in decision making much more than at most facilities. HD employees are very well paid. They haven't had a strike in decades. I'm thinking this is symptomatic of a more general problem, that a dollar doesn't go as far as it used to for a number of reasons, including massive trade inbalances and mounting national debt. Health care is a good focal point for cost discussions because health insurance costs have skyrocketed in this country. We all know the stories about buying drugs in Canada and Mexico, and the latest thing is going to India or whereever for medical care, which is apparently as good as, or better than, here; at a fraction of the cost. Let's face it, our health care system is broken.

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One of the areas Harley has touted is their good working relationship with the trade unions. The union, and employees, are involved in decision making much more than at most facilities. HD employees are very well paid. They haven't had a strike in decades. I'm thinking this is symptomatic of a more general problem, that a dollar doesn't go as far as it used to for a number of reasons, including massive trade inbalances and mounting national debt. Health care is a good focal point for cost discussions because health insurance costs have skyrocketed in this country. We all know the stories about buying drugs in Canada and Mexico, and the latest thing is going to India or whereever for medical care, which is apparently as good as, or better than, here; at a fraction of the cost. Let's face it, our health care system is broken.

 

Well, it's beacuse we have mistreated "health insurance"... Governments have forced health insurance companies to cover all sorts of goofy things (obesity stomach stapling, maternity, infertility, lord knows how many different prescriptions, etc.)

 

Health insurance should cover things like major medical, hospital visits and life-saving surgery.

 

The other things like maternity, elective surgery, cosmetic surgery, and routine office visits should be covered by the individual.

 

Let's use an analogy - How much would your car insurance cost if the insurance company were forced to cover oil changes, tires, brakes, gasoline and all repairs, instead of just liability, bodily injury and compreshensive damage coverage? The price would go up dramatically to cover these costs. Same thing has happened to health care.

 

Now the popular solution according to some is "single payer" or national health care (Hillary-care as it was called in the early 90's). It didn't work for Russia, and it aint working too good for Canada.

 

And let's forget to mention the ambulance chasing attorneys who have driven up the cost of mediacla liability coverage to the point of absurdity. We all pay for that, it gets passed right along to the consumers.

 

I for one do not want my health program to be administered by a bureaucrat and delivered with the speed and efficicency the postal service and with the accounting and compassion of the IRS. :thumbsup!:

 

Shee-yit, I wonder how my gandparents and great grandparents survived without modern health care?

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I understand that liability insurance is frequently the largest single medical cost. It's easy to blame the lawyers (99% of those lawyers screw it up for the rest of them), but a share of the blame has to go to a population unwilling to accept personal responsibility. Something wrong? Sue! It's got to be somebody else's fault!

 

I agree, John, I haven't seen a health care system that really seems to work well, although Canada's emphasis on preventative care does make sense. Something that doesn't make sense is our willingness to spend money based on perception rather than sound reasoning. We'll spend zillions on diseases nobody gets.

 

Unfortunately, our large un-insured population seeks its primary care from the most expensive place possible, the emergency rooms, which are obligated to respond and which must pass the cost on to those of us who do pay. I could see some kind of super-cheap preventative and low-severity responsive medicine to reduce the burden on the emergency system. Perhaps take some fraction of the money that gets spent on treating some obscure disease that affects a total of 6 people, and spread it around.

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:thumbsup!: Health care was doing great until it became for profit. How do you think health insurance companies are run? filled with burecarts. The only one who benefits from caps being placed on how much you can go after a hospital or doctor for screwing up, is the Health insurance companies.

 

I saw an interview with a guy who was in charge of Ford during the 70's. They asked why he agreed to the health care plan for retirees. He said " We got to pay them less now, when the guys retired it would be some other CEO's problem and they would tell them they could not honor the contract" This is what pisses me off with people complaining about groups who have good insurance. They took paycuts and other loss of compensation for their future. Now they companies break the contract and screw them.

 

If insurance only covered major issues, no one would go to the doctor. I try to go regularly to keep a check on things, I never leave with out a $100.00 bill and little to show for that.

 

Lots of studies show that our counterparts in Europe are healthier on the whole then Americans and live longer even with less cutting edge over cost medical technology.

 

The uninsured go to emergency rooms, because they will be seen and taken care of. A lot places do not have clinics open to help those who lack health care insurance.

 

My grandparents, had health insurance and used it regularly along with Medicaid and Social Security. Oh yeah they also had really good penisons. But of course they didn't deserve them because they are just regular schmoes :wub:

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Healthcare costs are goin up all over..... HD workers might end up the way of Ford workers pretty soon.

 

On the other hand, Harley has been past its prime for quite a while. Overexpensive and overrated.

 

But they're sure good for a weather report: "honey, whats the weather like?"

"I just heard a Harley ride by, so it must be sunny and warm outside."

 

 

 

-Barry

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On the other hand, Harley has been past its prime for quite a while. Overexpensive and overrated.

 

But they're sure good for a weather report: "honey, whats the weather like?"

"I just heard a Harley ride by, so it must be sunny and warm outside."

Aww... Harley Finance turned you down AGAIN?! Poor fellow.
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:thumbsup!: Health care was doing great until it became for profit. How do you think health insurance companies are run? filled with burecarts. The only one who benefits from caps being placed on how much you can go after a hospital or doctor for screwing up, is the Health insurance companies.

 

Hogwash! If the cost of medical liability insurace went down, with the competitive nature of the insurance business, the "invisible hand" of economics would kick in and those savings would be passed back to the customer.

 

FWIW, the medical liability insurers are a while different group than the medical insurance companies. I know personally of to OB/GYN doctors in the area that have stopped delivering babies because the insurance costs are too high.

 

If insurance only covered major issues, no one would go to the doctor. I try to go regularly to keep a check on things, I never leave with out a $100.00 bill and little to show for that.

 

Dude, ya gotta think different. For a year I was self-employed and chose to just cover my family with major medical, which is rather affordable, around $100/month with a $500 deductible. My previous job, I was paying almost $450/month to cover my family with a United Healthcare HMO/PPO full coverage plan with the $15/$25 copays. In one year, my wife had a GYN visit, and the rest of the family had a few office visits. Say 6 office visits x $100 each. Over the period of that year, even paying full price for office visits and prescriptions, I acutally saved money versus paying the $450/month HMO/PPO plan and then throw the co-pays for office visits and prescriptions. If you are in good health, it can save money. I would not reccomend it if you are not in good health or have a condition like heart problems or diabetes that required more care.

 

I also found that when I told my doctor I was paying out of pocket and would pay at the time of the office visit, the price of the visit went down about 20% as they didn't have to deal with all of the billing and dealing with the insurance company hassle.

 

My doctor knowing that I didn't have prescription coverage was also a little more generous with the sample meds (instead of writting a prescription that I had to pay for), they goet tons of free samples from the drug companies. The doctor was also less likely to schedule any tests or lab work that wasn't really medically necessary. Now days the doctors are so fraidy-cat of lawsuits, they end up running a lot of tests that really aren't needed for any other reason than to cover their a$$ if there was a lawsuit. And if the medical plan covers it, they will order it because they can.

 

Something to think about. Then again I like to try to be self relaint and not want to have to depend on the government to take care of me.

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