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Obama for Prez?


sprintstrider
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Dub, the incumbent president, tolerated by about 30% of the constituency and despised by the rest, discovered evangelicals as a voting power block about 15 years ago, and has exploited it ruthlessly, one of the few relatively intelligent moves he's made. When he stopped drinking, more or less (note; not "got sober", a significant difference) he became active in fundamental Christianity in West Texas, a hotbed of self-reliant, John Wayne-ism. The original population of West Texas came from Appalachia, where things were getting crowded; they could see smoke from their neighbors chimneys. These are pretty strong, isolated people.

 

He was very active in mens' Christian groups, and parlayed that into financial support, apparently with the promise, spoken or not, of pushing the evangelical agenda. Our division of voting power is such that a small minority can make the difference; witness the 2000 election, where a few votes in one state were enough.

 

So what we have now is a chief of state supporting a minority religious-political agenda, very loudly I might add; and to the joy of his minority constituency, who you see loudly represented on this forum. He's here for another two years; then we'll have a different flavor. Personally, I think a black man or woman would be at a minimum, not quite the same old crap.

 

And as long as the republican party remains hooked to the evangelical vote none of the reasonable republicans stands a chance to run for office. Things will only change for the party if they loose elections despite of the evangelicals going to the polls. Or if they win elections despite of the evangelicals staying away. The democrats would have to move to gain some of the conservative and progressive religious vote (it does exist) and they have moved in that direction. However, if they cannot come up with a candidate palatable to moderate conservatives....

 

We'll see how it plays out.

 

Peter

 

 

edit: Holy Cow! I wish the average moderate conservative could hear one of sprintstriders sermons a day :feelssogood:

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I am Catholic, not a happy one to be sure, It has in its midst, those who hid behind, alter, and abuse people in the name God, and they will pay when their day arrieves.

 

How ever for a member of this board uses this fourm to attack the entire Catholic church to elevate the status of his/her preference Church is a whole lot more than I can stand, while I respect your new found reliegeon, that does not mean you have the right to attack any others beliefs or lack of them.

 

We have here on this board, a fourm of members of all faiths, most show respect for the beliefs of others, I would hopefully ask that you reexamine your statements, and join the club....Ken Ulrich

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See what I mean about evangelical self-righteousness? My way or no way... No room for alternate points of view.

 

Anyway, setting that aside, there is an interesting Christian link with Hindu beliefs. Hindus believe that the world's descent is a gradual one, and that when things really start going to hell in a handbasket, teachers appear to show us a better way. That's a simplification, of course, but Jesus fits in there as one of those teachers.

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I'm in the minority here, I think- Orthodox Skeptic... but agree with Ken that a little self-moderation in the G-d bothering and denigrating other's religions might go a lot further than prostelytizing and blanket statements of eternal damnation for not being a believer (from ANY side).

 

The Talmud (commentary on the Torah) teaches that what we commonly refer to as the bible is open to interpretation, written by men- subject to imperfection, and not literal word from some invisible man-in-the-sky.

 

The Torah says "Love thy neighbor as thyself"

The Buddha says there is no "self"

This lets us off that hook.

 

Though only your skin, sinews, and bones remain,

though your blood and flesh dry up and wither away,

Yet shall you meditate and not stir until you have attained full Enlightenment.

But, first, a little nosh.Perhaps we're taking this a little too seriously.

 

The Tao does not speak.

The Tao does not blame.

The Tao does not take sides.

The Tao has no expectations.

The Tao demands nothing of others. The Tao is not Jewish.

 

/disclaimer: Yes, I was raised a Jew, studied for the Rabbinate, and still believe that the ultimate dilemma is pork chops at halfprice

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I am Catholic, not a happy one to be sure, It has in its midst, those who hid behind, alter, and abuse people in the name God, and they will pay when their day arrieves.

 

How ever for a member of this board uses this fourm to attack the entire Catholic church to elevate the status of his/her preference Church is a whole lot more than I can stand, while I respect your new found religion, that does not mean you have the right to attack any others beliefs or lack of them.

 

We have here on this board, a fourm of members of all faiths, most show respect for the beliefs of others, I would hopefully ask that you reexamine your statements, and join the club....Ken Ulrich

 

Dear Ken,

 

I am sorry you have interpreted my statements regarding the Catholic church as a personal attack on its believers. In no way did I mean a personal offense to any believer of any religion. My comments were only to reflect my opinion that the Catholic religion and its leaders (not you yourself personally), just like many of denominations, have had Satan at work within them on keeping its believers from the true Gospel of Jesus Christ as written in the Bible. The Catholic faith has had Satan working within when they do not even denounce publically very ungodly behaviors. Do they care more for keeping the sin under the table instead of the shining the light of God upon it?......it allows Satan to show the unsaved public that God and His ways are hypocritical and corrupt and should be avoided. I think Jesus would have made a very public rebuke and this is what I meant by furthering the seperation between man and God. This belief I will not apologize for, but I am most certainly sorry that you feel offended by my remarks. I do not mean in any way to further any one particular religion, as religion (catholics, evangelicals, Mormans, Hindus, etc etc) is a creation of man. My comments are only to promote the Truth of Jesus Christ as written in the Bible as the only way for man to be saved from seperation from God.

 

I feel love and respect in my heart for all members of this board, all members of humanity, and even for Satan himself as he is a real cagey adversary. :cheers: This is which is why I share my opinion. Please take it for what it is worth..if it makes you mad, perhaps it strikes a bit of truth. If it is worthless to you, pass it and don't read it. :flameon:

 

The Bible is certainly open to interpretation, but that doesn't mean we should say it is worthless. Because it is open to interpretation, God will hold you responsible for learning it & knowing it. False religion and idolotry are why the first commandment is to worship the Lord with all your heart. The Jews were out worshipiing false idols when Moses was getting the 10 commandments on Mt Sinai, it is one of the biggest failures of humanity and it was there from the start....sin. What happens if you're wrong? eternal damnation.....what happens if I'm wrong? dirt dude, dirt dude. :feelssogood:

 

In Genesis it says that we should bless the Jews, they are the apple of God's eye, so consider yourself blessed from me. As far as pork chops, that's between you and God. No comment.

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PS, being a good little Dutch boy from WI, I was brought up Catholic, all my family is Catholic.. Takes one to know one. I was beaten more at Catechism class then I ever was in all my days in public school. Everything I learned about God from them was just plain WRONG, and I know today that the love of Jesus is not about that! According to my father, who will not ever enter the door of a church again because of them, the Catholic nuns invented child abuse....So frankly, after more thinking on the subject I stand now more then before on my original comment that Satan has had a field day keeping man from knowing the love of Jesus in that one. Doesn't mean I don't love or respect my athiest Dad or my family who are devout believers. I am sad he doesn't know the love of Jesus.... :feelssogood:

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I am afraid you don't get it, and in the mind state you exhibit, you are blind to the reality of the world of faith, faith is not in a book, not in a church, not in blood sacerfices, not in preaching, its in the heart. For example it is not for me to condem J.Swaggert or the east Tenn. Minister who enslaved a girl to do the housework for his family, faith is to look in your self, in your heart, and see if you are living as our maker would like, I don't care if you are Jewish, arab, white, black, etc. To cast about and say this man or reliegeon is wrong. I am not Hindu, but to my family I quote some of Gandi's teachings, they are just as appropiate here and now ,as then.........Ken

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Just in: New information about the Obama case.

 

Obama is not a Kathenotheist! Early speculation unfounded!

 

Anonymous sources have confirmed that Obama is in fact the reincarnation of a completed dervish as a certified muslim who subsequently was reborn and saved. There are still questions regarding the alleged adhererence to the mosaic persuasion of his mother but leading experts pointed at the lack of precedent and uniformly expect a favourable outcome on that basis.

Rome is aware but, as usual, the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (formerly Roman Inquisition) does not comment on ongoing investigations. A decision is expected no later than AD 2135 which then may include recommendation for benediction according to sources intimately involved in the proceedings.

The Grand Ayatollah in Teheran has issued a fatwa which was immediately suspended and his office issued a communique stating that the nature of the provocation is such that immediate nuclear retaliation with particular attention to Israel would follow reactivation of the fatwa. The Ayatollah added that the issue is now in god's hands.

A representative of the State of Israel did not directly refer to Obama in person but pointed out that a visa was not required for US citizens. The official refused to discuss the Ayatollah's comments, tersely stating that this was an issue between the Ayatollah and the government of the State of Israel and therefore highly personal.

The House of Commons unanimously supported making a dervish President of the US, provided that his training was thorough and that he passed the finals with honors. The House of Lords issued a statement pointing out that the Commonwealth lacked the office of President assuaging any anxiety on the part of the reigning monarch and her subjects. Nevertheless, the Royal Navy was put on alert and several satifying practice salvoes were fired into the fog.

Germany kindly offered political asylum because of the tragic history of the country which would never be repeated. However, German officials pointed out that, once within the national borders, personal safety would become again an individual responsibility and no assurances or guarantees would be given.

Other european countries declined comment mainly on the grounds that dervishes were involved.

 

Peter

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Atheism. I don’t care for it. That would mean ‘Man’ makes the rules. So who could you trust to say what’s right or wrong? I guess who ever has the highest collage degree. And I don’t think that would be freedom.

 

I guess one might want to define (for themselves) what IS/Does freedom mean you.

What is the ultimate symbol of freedom? What makes a man really free? How does one measure it? Is it by how much one owns? Maybe it’s by what one says or does. Could it be in the mind? Maybe it’s all the above and then some.

 

Who gives you freedom? Is it MAN? Would you trust someone, a man, to say “I grant you freedom” If that would be the case, I think it wouldn’t be long before another person came along and offered a different brand of Freedom. I know of no person (politician) anywhere on this planet that everyone likes.

 

I wonder what religion would give you, us, everyone, the most freedom. Or better yet, who is to be considered the ‘Freest people on earth’ Once you find that out just move there.

 

I already made my choice. Good luck with yours.

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Sprintstrider

 

I agree with much of everything you say. And I know sometimes it’s hard NOT to caught up in a religious debate. It’s good to see and know that you’re steady in your faith.

 

But these (on this board) are big boys and girls and for the most part have made their choice in life. And they are just as steady in it as you are in yours.

 

You are teaching the standard. You are using a sludge-hammer to drive in a tack.

 

It’s really not a good thing to try and convince someone to come to Jesus over the web. But if you insist. And if I were you, I would get some different fishing lures. That is if your trying to be a good “Fisher of Men’

 

This way you won’t have to type as much.

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Atheism. I don’t care for it. That would mean ‘Man’ makes the rules. So who could you trust to say what’s right or wrong? I guess who ever has the highest collage degree. And I don’t think that would be freedom.

 

I guess one might want to define (for themselves) what IS/Does freedom mean you.

What is the ultimate symbol of freedom? What makes a man really free? How does one measure it? Is it by how much one owns? Maybe it’s by what one says or does. Could it be in the mind? Maybe it’s all the above and then some.

 

Who gives you freedom? Is it MAN? Would you trust someone, a man, to say “I grant you freedom” If that would be the case, I think it wouldn’t be long before another person came along and offered a different brand of Freedom. I know of no person (politician) anywhere on this planet that everyone likes.

 

I wonder what religion would give you, us, everyone, the most freedom. Or better yet, who is to be considered the ‘Freest people on earth’ Once you find that out just move there.

 

I already made my choice. Good luck with yours.

 

Now here you are bringing up questions which are anything but trivial. These concerns are the stuff which have made the evangelicals a major pain in a bunch of important issues during the last couple of hundred years.

 

Let's just hope that the bad taste of worldly corruption leads to a reckoning. A good start would be to re-evaluate what belongs in the pulpit and what the State is really about. There are few things as repulsive to many people as the clergy wearing the politician's cloth.

 

At this point it's very hard for people to see you guys through all that fire and brimstone.

 

 

Peter

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Sprintstrider

 

I agree with much of everything you say. And I know sometimes it’s hard NOT to caught up in a religious debate. It’s good to see and know that you’re steady in your faith.

 

But these (on this board) are big boys and girls and for the most part have made their choice in life. And they are just as steady in it as you are in yours.

 

You are teaching the standard. You are using a sludge-hammer to drive in a tack.

 

It’s really not a good thing to try and convince someone to come to Jesus over the web. But if you insist. And if I were you, I would get some different fishing lures. That is if your trying to be a good “Fisher of Men’

 

This way you won’t have to type as much.

 

 

Sigh...Thank you Mac for your comment. I tend to do everything with excess amounts of enthusiasm. Your point is well taken. :thumbsup!:

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Yeesh, this is a tough one...but everybody here seems interested in friendly, spirited conversation, so I'll put my 2 cents in.

 

...Besides, I haven't had much to say about my bike lately! :party:

 

Going waaay back to the beginning of the thread- I believe that if Obama were to be elected, he wouldn't live out his term.

The original assassins- and almost all of 'em since- were not really concerned with 'crusaders', outsiders or non-Muslims. Their mission (self-appointed, tough they'll tell you differently) has always been to punish/eliminate the apostate- the Muslim who doesn't 'live properly'.

I think Obama would attract a LOT of unwanted attention....and that's not even considering all the hate he'd be a target of among secular or other religious nuts.

 

Also waaaay back on page 1, someone mentioned witchcraft and its interaction with early Christianity.

Sorry, but witchcraft never really existed the way most of us believe. What most of us think of as 'witchcraft' is the product of two things, mostly: the European witch-craze of the Renaisance and Reformation period, which was merely an hysteria, and had nothing at all to do with any pagan religions- and the modern (in the last 120 years or so) 'spiritualist' movement, which sought to create a pagan-influenced practice of earth centered religion, and claim some kind of connection to pre-Christian European pagan religions (a connection which, if it exists at all, is purely artificial). Umm....so there.

 

For what it's worth, I'm not Christian, Muslim, Jew or pagan. Ultimately, I don't like the way any of them conduct their business- different reasons for each religion, but none of them is for me.

 

Islam, as near as I can tell, (and I've researched quite a bit) is really the most violent and distasteful of the lot, to me. I've read many passages of the koran, and consistently been shocked at the level of intolerance and violence. With only a few followers, Islam would look a lot like a cult. With billions, you've got to take it seriously...

 

Christianity doesn't do much for me, as I find it to be condescending, contradictory and sanctimonious. It also bears little or no resemblance to what it did about 2000 years ago- and most of the changes are well documented. (Look, don't ask me for sources right now, 'cause then I'll have to go and look 'em up. :feelssogood: :feelssogood: I'm not attacking your religion, I'm just stating my opinion. My opinion of a religion and its adherents are very different things. So, sorry for any offense.)

 

Pagans just seem to base their beliefs on a combination of wish-fulfillment fantasies and disenchantment with the norm. I have very little problem with that, other than that it strikes me as silly. I don't think they've ever really tried to oppress anyone else. (Remember, this is 'neo' paganism...no real relation to any pre-monotheistic, truly old religions)

 

OK, I'm done ranting. Don't really know why I was compelled to post this at all, really. I lurk here a lot more than I post, though, so every now and then I've gotta open my gob. :thumbsup!:

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