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Obama for Prez?


sprintstrider
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I must say this thread is not to be an inflammatory rant about Muslims and violence and whatever....

 

But a second for pause and honest discussion.

 

I am amazed at how our public has embraced him....This man has sprang up from no where without any political record to speak of- Good or bad? maybe both? Democrats who is worse Obama or Mrs. Clinton? On second thought don't go there.......

 

What will our presence be like in the middle east with a "moderate" Muslim trying to effect change with fanatical Islam? Will this bring on more violence? How will they view him? Will they see him as a Muslim who believes his religion should be the only form of government easily swayed to stamp out our constitution in some way or will they see him as worse then a secularist as he "polutes" their religion as someone who doesn't hold fast to the tenets of their faith? Can you have both? What will happen to our relationship with Israel..because if a "moderate" Muslim approaches Israel (whom the fantics wish to "wip off the face of the planet") as the only moderate peaceful nation in the region, what will happen? Will he push for trying to negotiate the hose pucky "peace for land" deal with the terrorists (I mean Palestinians) like every other idiot and how will that go over?

 

I honestly do not have a clue...lets just say he seems WAY too good to be true without any background. The masses have proven to be dumb sheep in this day and age....just cause everyone like him doesn't mean I do.

 

:blink: ... :laugh: no one seems to bringing up the idea at all anywhere except the mainstream media..

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I must say this thread is not to be an inflammatory rant about Muslims and violence and whatever....

 

But a second for pause and honest discussion.

 

I am amazed at how our public has embraced him....This man has sprang up from no where without any political record to speak of- Good or bad? maybe both? Democrats who is worse Obama or Mrs. Clinton? On second thought don't go there.......

 

OK I won't go there. Let's face it, Obama and Edwards are running for 2nd place as Hillary's running mate... There's no way she's losing the Democratic nomination. She has a helluva campaign warchest, the contacts, she's been planning this run for years, and she is a ruthless cunning b----.... OK, so I went there a little... :laugh:

 

At least Obama can't be accused of "flip flopping" like Kerry as he really doesn't have a record or a position. He's been a Senator for two years and hasn't introduced one piece of legislation nor served as a committee chairman. No business leadership experience. Nothing, Nada, Zip, Zero. I can't understand how anybody thinks this guy is remotely qualified to run the US, much less a Dairy Queen. :blink:

 

I look at it as the "liberal media" fawning over another darling. A black (well only half black) man that speaks proper English and is intelligent and well-spoken. If Obama was white, you wouldn't know his name. The dirt is already starting to get dug up on Obama, like his past drug use. (Funny - the same people and media that slammed Bush for his past alcohol problems can give Obama a free pass for smoking crack)

 

It won't be the Republicans that take him down. Hillary's henchmen will torpedo this guy as soon as they are done using him. Right now, they are giving him just enough rope. Not to mention that it keeps the media busy until Hillary is ready to spring the trap and announce her "formal" candidacy.

 

FWIW, I don't think Obama is a Muslim. He calims to be a member of the United Church of Christ.

 

Personally I blame the Illinois Republicans. If they ran a serious candidate against him for Senator two years ago, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

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I got this email:

 

Barack Hussein Obama was born in Honolulu, Hawaii, to black Muslim Barack Hussein Obama Sr. of Nyangoma-Kogelo, Siaya District, Kenya, and White atheist, Ann Dunham of Wichita, Kansas.

 

 

 

When Obama was two years old, his parents divorced and his father returned to Kenya. His mother married Lolo Soetoro, a Muslim as well, moving to Jakarta with young Obama, when he was six years old.

 

 

 

Within six months he had learned to speak the Indonesian language Obama spent "two years in a Muslim school, then two more in a Catholic school" in Jakarta.

 

 

 

Obama takes great care to conceal the fact that he is a Muslim. Mitigating that information, by saying that for two years, he attended a Catholic school.

 

 

 

Obama's father, Barack Hussein Obama, Sr. was a radical Muslim who migrated from Kenya to Jakarta, Indonesia. He met Obama's mother, Ann Dunham—at the University of Hawaii at Manoa.

 

 

 

Obama's spin- meisters are now attempting to make it appear that Obama's introduction to Islam, came from his father and that influence was only temporary, which is true. Obama Sr. returned to Kenya immediately following the divorce and never again had any direct influence over his son's education. But,

 

Lolo Soetoro, Ann Dunham's second husband, educated his stepson Barack Hussein Obama, as a good Muslim by enrolling him in one of Jakarta's Wahabbi schools.

 

 

 

Wahabbism is the radical teaching that created the Muslim terrorists, who are now waging Jihad on the industrialized world. Since it is politically expedient to be a Christian when you are seeking political office in the United States, Obama joined the United Church of Christ, to help purge any notion that he is still a Muslim.

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Forgetting everything else, just being the good guy doesn't warant you a position of presidency. It requires so much more... But will I really be surprised if he wins? No. Because people are such slaves to the media that if one can gain control of it, then one can certainly get far enough.

Forgetting the differences between democrats and republicans, would you really want to see Edwards, Clinton, or Obama as your president, commander in chief, the leader of your country, esp. in such hard times as now?

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I agree that being a good guy should not be the qualification, that is what they said about bush. If we are a country with seperation of church and state that should not be an issue. These are some of the same arguements waged against JFK. Bush constantly refers to God helping his decisions making is his religion okay because you share his religion?

 

Most of Bush's past is locked away, like his involvment with Jeb in S and L scams.

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I agree that being a good guy should not be the qualification, that is what they said about bush. If we are a country with seperation of church and state that should not be an issue. These are some of the same arguements waged against JFK. Bush constantly refers to God helping his decisions making is his religion okay because you share his religion?

 

Most of Bush's past is locked away, like his involvment with Jeb in S and L scams.

 

Please point to me in the Declaration of Independence, Constitution, or Bill of Rights that references "separation of church and state". No such thing exists Bear.... Some people take the part of the 1st amendment that reads "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion" to mean something different than it was written. It was to prohibit a National religion like in Europe at the time: If the King was Protestant, the country was Protestant. That amend ment lets you worship however you choose without government interference.

 

I would hope that any leader, regardless of their faith, would use their faith and perhaps some divine guidance in the decision making porcess.

 

FWIW, it was Neil Bush and not Jeb that was involved in the S&L's. Get your Bush family straight, will ya? :laugh:

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Just take a hard look at President Bush's own qualifications. Every business venture he was involved in, he ran into the ground. I wouldn't trust him to run a Dairy Queen either. He became a Christian only after hitting bottom as a alcoholic. I consider him a poor shadow of his father who was much more qualified to be President.

I'd be leery of the children of any wealthy and priviledged couple who run for office. They have no real basis in reality. Everything has been handed to them all their lives. Many of them wind up as hand puppets to the people behind the scenes who run them and use their image for their gain.

 

Obama reminds me JFK when he was campaigning for the Presidency. Young, very good speaker and charismatic. And much like JFK, he has no real qualifications to run a country. Once you get past the glamour of "Camelot" there was little substance. And it planted seeds that tore this society apart in the 60's.

 

We've had many Presidents who weren't qualified to run a Dairy Queen. This IS America afterall!

 

Hillary? I think the Dems know that if they nominate her it'd be like throwing sodium into water. She's pretended to be a moderate for some years now but her past will rise up to bite her. When she's under stress the real Hillary emerges. I think she's worse than Jane Fonda myself. They're both left wing radicals trying to market to the middle ground. She'd be like Nixon and his "Imperial Presidency". Except she's left wing and he was right wing. I see little difference in the extremists on either side. They'll both wreck the country.

 

My vote? McCain for President! He's proven his character far more than the other rats in this race.

 

:blink: :laugh:

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I'd agree for McCain...so far the guy has shown that he is a leader with principles. The man certainly did and still does his duty for his country.

 

Any thoughts on the Obama and the impact that would have on the middle east?

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The only reason Osama is being touted is that he is identifiable as black, and as such will bring black votes to...Hillery and her camp...I agree that John Mc Cain is the best man on the scene, we need statesmen, not rich boys, we need moderates with regards to Isreal, and we need a "walk quiet, and carry a dam big stick", not the fly swatter attitude of the last four years, we need some" build it here" laws and regulations to stop the wild outflow of this nations wealth, we need control of the media where things like "american Idol" and its cast of hand picked fools are not glorifyed to the younger people, we need music that has some taste, not bang-bang-bang-baby-bang-bang excuse for music.................the general "dumbing down" of america must stop some where, there is more than enuff blame to go around, but two areas need to be focused on, education, and what is education, sex and sports are a couple that come to mind, and national and world politics, which goes hand in hand, we cannot be the worlds policeman, but we can be an influence, lotta room for dicussion here ...have at it......Ken :cheers:

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Any thoughts on the Obama and the impact that would have on the middle east?

 

They've been killing each other for thousands of years, and Obama is gonna stop that? :cheers:

 

Besides, I thought Jimmy Carter fixed that 30 years ago at Camp David... :laugh:

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:laugh:

 

Can't be worse than what we have....

 

Believe me.....

 

A 'rainbow coalition of right and centre'....

 

Shudders.....

 

Except they are more 'wrong and off-centre'....

 

 

 

:cheers:

 

Dubanarchist

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Please point to me in the Declaration of Independence, Constitution, or Bill of Rights that references "separation of church and state". No such thing exists Bear.... Some people take the part of the 1st amendment that reads "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion" to mean something different than it was written. It was to prohibit a National religion like in Europe at the time: If the King was Protestant, the country was Protestant. That amend ment lets you worship however you choose without government interference.

 

I would hope that any leader, regardless of their faith, would use their faith and perhaps some divine guidance in the decision making porcess.

 

FWIW, it was Neil Bush and not Jeb that was involved in the S&L's. Get your Bush family straight, will ya?

It wouldn't be in the Constitution, since the Bill of Rights was added to protect the individual from the majority. Many colony states had only one religion and would not allow others, catholics had to move to pennsylvania to worship freely.

 

Amendment I-- Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peacably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grieances.

 

It does exist, just in a letter from one of the framers of the Bill of Rights

 

Letter from President Thomas Jefferson (January 1, 1802)

 

To messers. Nehemiah Dodge, Ephraim Robbins, & Stephen S. Nelson, a committee of the Danbury Baptist association in the state of Connecticut.

 

Gentlemen

 

The affectionate sentiments of esteem and approbation which you are so good as to express towards me, on behalf of the Danbury Baptist association, give me the highest satisfaction. My duties dictate a faithful and zealous pursuit of the interests of my constituents, & in proportion as they are persuaded of my fidelity to those duties, the discharge of them becomes more and more pleasing.

 

Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.

 

I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection & blessing of the common father and creator of man, and tender you for yourselves & your religious association, assurances of my high respect & esteem.

 

here are some more thoughts on Religious Freedom http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/rel_li...y/overview.aspx

 

I mentioned the seperation of church and state because for some reason many were stating that since Obama comes from a Muslim heritage he would not be able seperate his duty as president from his heritage as a muslim. My point was that if many believe Bush could do his duties after being a born again Christian, a group that can contain very enthusiastic members. I don't see why Obama could not, do the same.

 

My apologies it was Niel not that George's hands are clean or Jeb's.

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Crap, I really tried......

 

"I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.

 

I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection & blessing of the common father and creator of man, and tender you for yourselves & your religious association, assurances of my high respect & esteem."

 

Thomas Jefferson was an evangelical Christian and is often misquoted here and other places due to the interpretation or dropping of capitals and/or the interpreters missing the subtle references to the biblical background ...notice how he referred to the "Common Father and Creator of Man"...This is not Muhammed or Allah. This is a biblical reference to YahWeh, Adonai, or Jesus's Dad......God of Abraham, Issac, & Jacob...the God of the Jews.... I do find it interesting that there wasn't any Muslim writers of the Constitution...I wonder what Thomas Jefferson would say today about the flag burning....What would they have changed in hind-sight? That is probably for another post.....maybe not.

 

Do they have any "Constitution" in the middle east? I believe it is called the Quran.... :laugh:

 

One problem with trying to blur the religious lines between Christanity and Islam is that Islam clearly states in it tenets or facets of faith that the only form of true government is Islam. In America this whole Muslim thing is really quite unfamiliar and we do not wish to be jacka**es so we we try and be "culterally sensitive" and refer to religious affiliation as "heritage." Being a Christian or being a Muslim is FAR MORE then heritage or culture..heritage is refering to my ethnic roots as being Swedish...a land or country or specific peoples (such as the Scythians or Russians)...This is almost more of a racial word. Religious people (whether you are Muslim or Christian) believe that it is our most important duty to glorify God to all humanity and show them through action and modeling good behavior that if they do not repent and turn to God Himself through Jesus (ok the Muslims just got the wrong book and the wrong guy IMHO), you will not be saved from eternal damnation. This ranks a bit more up there then me being a Swede or Dutch.

 

"In opposition to his social duties"...IMHO this is where the problem lies, you don't see Christians trying to take over the country...hopefully... unless they are Christians "in name only" and not acting like real Christians.....I remain shaky on that as well I admit. It is like saying that a doctor's first ethical agreement above all else do no harm... then you read about how they chop off the wrong leg, leave in sponges, and the latest I heard at the hospital was doing a Barium enema on the wrong guy! wouldn't that be just sh*tty....

 

But it also ties into my original question....Obama isn't gonna solve the middle eastern conflict..but will he make it worse by playing both sides of the fence? I cannot imagine one of the Iranian Immans accepting him being wishy washy on whether Islam should be the religion of all Americans...much less telling them that since Islam is a religion of peace... how about we make friends with Isreal now? besides I only listen to Allah if it doesn't conflict with the ideals of the Infidel American people's wishes now... anymore.... That might just be a bigger insult to the Immans that pushes them into increasing the terror activities on our soil.

If Obama (or any Muslim for that matter) can do the will of the people rather then the will of the Quran..I guess that remains to be seen and I hope that I am being a religious zealot and prejudiced..Have you got out the quran and read it? Have you gotten out your Bible and read it? ...I am just slightly worried about it because I understand what it means to be filled with enthusiasm for Jesus.

 

Whoever said that Hiliary Clinton will deep six him is probably right. Even so, it won't be the last we hear of Muslims entering into public service, google search keyword Iowa and Muslim. :laugh: :laugh:

 

Enough said from me on this....until someone else sends off a good reply. :cheers:

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