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I don't beleive in global warming


Serious Black
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Do you really believe that labor costs, healthcare costs, retirement costs, had less to do with the shift of manufacturing to China, then environmental regulations? Are you suggesting the US should operate under the same air quality regulations as China to be "competitive"?

 

Nope, global climate change :biggrin:

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Do you really believe that labor costs, healthcare costs, retirement costs, had less to do with the shift of manufacturing to China, then environmental regulations? Are you suggesting the US should operate under the same air quality regulations as China to be "competitive"? Do you believe a government can "decree" that corporations from other countries will move their manufacturing centers to their country? I know there are those who believe that all it takes is "free trade", and the playing field is automatically level, couldn't be further from the truth. Trade has to be negotiated, a country has the right to "insist" that in order for another country to "cheaply" import products into their country, that country has to "progressively" raise the standard of living of it's workers, so those workers can eventually afford the products of the importing country. The US government has abandoned it's labor force in favor of multinational corporations.

 

Whoa Nelly!!!

I never said anything like that.

First; There was no "Shift" of manufacturing. Unlike the makiladoras of Mexico, set up by US companies, Chinese Steel manufacturing was ordered by the Communist Chinese Party. "Foreign devils" were never allowed a majority stake for their money. Steel IS a strategic industry, I have not heard of any Chinese steel mills started by US companies. The Communist Chinese are quite well known for ignoring environmental and safety issues. Using the cost savings by exploiting the environment and their worker's health the Chinese have replaced much of the first world's steel manufacturing.

Second; I do not believe in "Free Trade". I believe in "Fair Trade". When the US Gov. does free trade, we just trade good American Jobs with environmental and worker exploitation in the second and third world. There has to be a balance.

Third; The US Gov. never abandoned it's labor force. They never gave a crap about us in the first place.

 

The US worker can make steel cleaner and cheaper than anywhere else in the world. Why? Because we work harder and more productively. This isn't an opinion but a fact based upon the worker to tons ratio, cost to tons, health to tons. I spend two hours every week in safety meetings. Either our company really cares about us, or the legal and regulatory environment encourages them to do so. Oh, and the air in our mill is cleaner than the inside of your house, that's what they tell us.

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Whoa Nelly!!!

I never said anything like that.

 

"Actually labor costs have nothing to do with China's steel production. Ten years ago China produced about 100 million tons a year, so did the US. Now China produces about 450 million tons a year, the US about 120 million (or did before this downturn)."

 

"Most of the cost differential are subsidies and environmental costs." :P

 

 

 

I think you underestimate the motivation of the "Communist Chinese Party", their goal, like the goal of any "corporate head", is to make money. The days of Chairman Mao and the cultural revolution have long since passed, money makes the world go around, and the leaders of China like that "go around" as much as the next guy. The lack of "Foreign devils" as majority stake holders, has not prevented those same devils from being the primary "contractors" of their goods and services. There has been a "shift" in manufacturing toward the third world, not necessarily that the companies "shifted", but the manufacturing sure has.

 

I agree whole heartedly with several of the issues you have raised. I believe the American work force is second to none, we work hard, we work smart, and when convinced the sacrifices are worth while, we do what we have to do. I do not agree that the US government "never" supported the US work force, but there is no argument that now that support goes to the highest bidder. Now, to get back on topic. I very much believe the major opposition to the theory of "global climate change", is from those who believe in "free trade" , not "fair trade". The environmental issues that the supporters of this issue are pursuing are all pretty much being addressed by the US. Like you said, the air quality around your plant is better than the air quality of most homes. Cars are becoming cleaner and more fuel efficient. Air power, wind power, soon clean coal, all costs Americans are willing to bare, if not for the planet, then for their children's health. So why the opposition by so many of those in our government. "Free trade", those "multi-national corporations", who contract that cheap labor, who exploit the fact that there are places in the world where children's health has more to do with food on the table, then poison in the air and water. If the US were to make environmental, fair labor practices, and human rights, as part of all trade negotiations, those corporations would lose their power of exploitation, aka, MONEY.

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Yep on the fair trade thing. It's just an excuse for the powerful to globally exploit the poor. Look at Nike. But sometimes the poor want to be exploited, anything for a job. I feel that if you want to sell in this country, there are minimums that we should demand of your social contract.

 

But the goal of the Chinese Communists is to stay in power. Also, they have little or no environmental inforcement, low wages, no health protection, and because everything is "State Owned" they, not the market, get to judge what is economically efficacious. It has always been the their stated goal to be the worlds largest steel producer. It proves the worth of communism in their value system.

 

I am a environmentalist who just doesn't buy the Global Warming argument. It will resolve itself in just a few years anyway. If this non-warming trend of the last ten years continues, Global Warming will be pushed aside by economic considerations. Actually, looking at our economy for the last 6 months, it may be pushed aside no matter what.

 

I'm drinking a glass of Merlot. I'd pour you one but my transporter is on the fritz.

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