Scott E Posted June 10, 2020 Report Share Posted June 10, 2020 I'm going to order a Type III electronic ignition system but I've found there are two versions. The cheaper of the two uses resistors and capacitors to accomplish ignition timing control. For another $10 you can have a microprocessor accomplish the same function. I think the cheaper one would actually be more robust as the heat inside the timing cover could kill the microprocessor chip in the slightly higher cost one. I didn’t say the timing advance system because none of them actually advance the timing when operating. They actually retard the timing to control the "advance" curve. That's the reason the sensor is set at maximum advance when static timing these systems. At lower RPM timing is retarded by the system until RPM increases to the maximum design setting. I don't see any advantage to having a microprocessor adding complications when resistors and capacitors can do the same job and possibility adding to reliability. Am I wrong? Anyone have experience with these units that can suggest which to order. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
propwash Posted June 10, 2020 Report Share Posted June 10, 2020 Less is generally better, however type III systems are generally robust. They have quirks.0) The special "eared" washer can wear causing missing issues (generally on one side and makes one think carb problem. If you install the rotor correctly (not allowing it to "bottom out"on the cam and keep it tight thereafter, this issue is greatly reduced.1) It can cause the bike to lurch forward when the key is "on" and the kill switch is moved to the "run" position; the ignition will "fire" if things are lined up just right at this moment. Not really a safety issue, but it is silly and annoying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott E Posted June 10, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2020 Less is generally better, however type III systems are generally robust. They have quirks.0) The special "eared" washer can wear causing missing issues (generally on one side and makes one think carb problem. If you install the rotor correctly (not allowing it to "bottom out"on the cam and keep it tight thereafter, this issue is greatly reduced.1) It can cause the bike to lurch forward when the key is "on" and the kill switch is moved to the "run" position; the ignition will "fire" if things are lined up just right at this moment. Not really a safety issue, but it is silly and annoying.Yep! I would rather have the Type with the windowed steel cup but after finding those not in stock everywhere I looked I started checking the manufacturers websites and discovered they are no longer in production. Just the Type III with that pot metal rotor. I may end up making one out of aluminium if I have mounting issues with the one that comes with the kit. I'm tempted to home brew my own electronic ignition system but I can't build one myself for less money than the Type III they sell now. I have a metal lathe and mill so making a new rotor would not be a problem for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
propwash Posted June 10, 2020 Report Share Posted June 10, 2020 I played around and tested most of the common and not so common electronic ignitions. Personally, I find points much more reliable, less quirky and zero chance of faulting to an overly advanced scenario.With that said, I run a points plate instead of the original style bowl. Easier to fine-tune. Original coil, 20+ years with over 100k kms. The low voltage connections to the coil will fatigue over time and break. Just something to watch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RussN Posted June 11, 2020 Report Share Posted June 11, 2020 Scott E:I have had to weld the "windowed steel cup" rotor on several Friend's Ural ignitions, including 2 of my own.The pressed connection between the cup and the shaft would loosen over time and use and temperature cycling.It presented some interesting trouble shooting challenges.They have been rock solid ever since, but just a heads up about that.RussN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott E Posted June 16, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2020 I went ahead and ordered the Microprocessor controlled electronic ignition unit with coil. It should arrive in a couple of weeks like the order I made from the same place back in February ( 2020 ). I went ahead and ordered it due to a problem with the points ignition system I'm currently using. It was problem I've never seen on any other bike or any of my own. My MT-11 engine started running poorly and was hard to start. It acted like the ignition coil was going bad. I put it on my red neck coil tester and found it was working perfectly. Out came the points, condensor, and advance cam box and found the problem. The condensor was covered in wax that had melted and leaked out of it. I've never seen one do that before. I've seen them burn up or swell up and stop working quickly but never slowly leak wax and pit the points in the process. I put a new, non Russian condensor in the ignition system, cleaned up the points, and all is well once again. I'm still going to keep the points system as back up and ordered a new set of points for it just in case of the electronic ignition system fails at some point in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott E Posted July 15, 2020 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2020 Got my new electronic ignition kit in the mail today from Arbalet. From the picture on the website I thought I was getting a type III with the pot metal rotor. It ended up being a type IV microprocessor unit with the metal cup rotor. I installed it with no problems and it works just fine. The engine runs nice and smooth and it's easier to start. When kick starting the engine the plugs fire at Top Dead Centre. The old points unit was firing the plugs when kick starting at 5 degrees before Top Dead Centre. Kick starting is smooth as butter now. I checked the timing cure with a timing light and degree wheel. It's not an advance curve like you would have with fly weights and springs. It's defiantly being microprocessor controlled. The LED made setting static timing easy too. I should have ordered it back in February when I made an order back then but my funds were running a little in the red after buying 4 new tires for it along with some other necessary stuff just to get it running safely on the local roads. The old points system was working as one would expect them to work so I thought I would just run with them until I could spend some more money on it without getting in trouble with the House Boss (my Wife). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dowey Posted July 15, 2020 Report Share Posted July 15, 2020 The ignition fires at TDC? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racepres Posted July 15, 2020 Report Share Posted July 15, 2020 Oddly... my MT-11, points ignition, with Properly Functioning mechanical advance, starts Much easier than the Ural, via kicker...If the Dnepr is not Running after one, rarely 2 kicks... something is Wrong....always.. TDC firing??? I guess I have no Idea where my Dnepr is Firing...as I do Not believe in "canned" one size fits all specs...on anything...learned long ago on my DragBike..Got me to Wondering tho.... What is the Range of the stock Dnepr mechanical advance mechanism??Could it be set at TDC [no advance] and still obtain acceptable full running advance???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott E Posted July 19, 2020 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2020 The ignition fires at TDC?Yes, when kicking it over to start it. It's kick start only so that's actually a good thing! When it fires off and starts running the Electronic Ignition immediately advances the timing so it's working properly. Firing at TDC when kick starting prevents kick back injuries and it makes kick starting the bike easy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott E Posted July 19, 2020 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2020 Oddly... my MT-11, points ignition, with Properly Functioning mechanical advance, starts Much easier than the Ural, via kicker...If the Dnepr is not Running after one, rarely 2 kicks... something is Wrong....always.. TDC firing??? I guess I have no Idea where my Dnepr is Firing...as I do Not believe in "canned" one size fits all specs...on anything...learned long ago on my DragBike..Got me to Wondering tho.... What is the Range of the stock Dnepr mechanical advance mechanism??Could it be set at TDC [no advance] and still obtain acceptable full running advance????When static timing my old points system I would lock the fly weights open at maximum and set the points so my timing light would just turn off at the maximum advance marking on the flywheel. After setting it and locking it down I too wondered what the minimum advance was going to be. It turned out to be 5 degrees before Top Dead Centre. I checked it by bumping the flywheel with the kick starter just a little at a time until my timing light went out. I did it that way so I could get an accurate reading with the flyweights and points springs interacting with each other as the cam lobe contacted the points rub block. When kick starting the bike I could occasionally fell pressure from the kick start lever as it started firing just before the piston reached Top Dead centre. With electronic Ignition I never get that now. It feels the same as kicking the engine over before turning on the ignition system on to pump oil up into the oil passages so the engine starts oiling immediately on start-up. Anyway, looks like the range for the mechanical points system is from 5 to 36 degrees before Top Dead Centre. I would not say that's exact for every bike due to differences in the springs used between bikes and how much use they have had. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racepres Posted July 19, 2020 Report Share Posted July 19, 2020 ^^ Fairly Narrow range really... But... it was a Curiosity Only... Mine works fine.. and since I haven't used a Timing Light since I was in High School... I do Not honestly Know where the timing is "set"...Don't know on any Bike I own... but, I can about tell ya they are all different.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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