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Ural vs. Dneper


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The only DNA they share is the fact they were developed and made in Soviet countries. One could say that Henderson, HD and Indian all have the same DNA because they were born in the USA.

Best analogy yet!

I concur, and have used this one myself. Especially the H-D Indian similarities/differences.

RP

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One of the problems with the internet is there is too much information, much of it repeated and copied over many pages, if some of this information is incorrect, it becomes repeated so often that it becomes fact. One has to be carefull and try to check original sources where possible. I have been involved with Soviet bikes for about 15years now and have learned a lot in that time.

 

Consider this

 

Military requirements have lead to many advances in the world we live in, the Soviets were in the same situation as we in the west were. Budgets were higher than in the civilian world and improvements were being driven all the time. Ural were a civilian factory and needed to produce a simple, functional product that consumers could use and afford ( within the constraints of the Soviet system). The military, on the other hand wanted the best they could get and development moved on accordingly.

 

The Urals you saw in the UK in the 1990's, how many had a reverse gear? Probably none, how many were outfits with 2wd, probably none. The Dnepr gearbox and final drive is still acknowledged to better than Urals by many, and some insist they are simpler and more reliable than BMW units.

 

Until the fall of the Soviet union , the majority of developments went into Dneprs but the situation changed drastically with the influx of foreign money that went into Ural. As a civvy factory , it was ripe for investment and it was in Russia, under the control of the motherland. Dnepr, on the other hand, was a military factory and based in a satellite country that broke away from the Union. When the Russians withdrew support, the Ukrainians didn't know what to do with it, they dithered for so long all became chaos. The factory finally closed in December 2011

 

Technically, the Dnepr is a much more advanced bike than the Ural but was let down by poor quality control ( meeting targets?). And the political system. A sorted one is a joy to own. One that isn't sorted is a real PITA.

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The Dnepr gearbox and final drive is still acknowledged to better than Urals by many, and some insist they are simpler and more reliable than BMW units.

 

No experience with either Ural or BMW gearboxes, but the dneprglide on my MT-16 is very smooth on both up- and downshifts, except for when engaging 1st.

 

But hasnt gotten the "semi-auto" clutchless shifts mastered yet.

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dneprlover;

I would say that covers it Very well...Thanks for being so eloquent.

RP

Edit;

 

No experience with either Ural or BMW gearboxes, but the dneprglide on my MT-16 is very smooth on both up- and downshifts, except for when engaging 1st.

 

But hasnt gotten the "semi-auto" clutchless shifts mastered yet.

I find that it needs to be adjusted properly to start out, Then holding the lever for an extended moment whilst shifting is helpful, as is a slower release of the lever after the shift...Not too slow now..You'll get the hag of it.

Kinda "pull/push" it into gear.

Can't explain it better...Sorry

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On that statement, "Many Ural owners ignore the truth because the reverse engineering story is more romantic bulldust to impress the ignorant with." I don't know where the animosity towards Ural owners comes from, but I don't ignore anything. I research and find the answers. I had a great closing planned for this post. But I'm trying to curtail animosity, not accelerate it. So I'll keep it to myself.

 

Hey, you seem a little sensitive? Healthy debate is to be encouraged ( personal attacks are a no-no ) . I stand by my statement and can give you more examples on the same lines if you wish, especially about Ural owners ' owning a genuine Soviiet army bike from WWII' you have something to say, please say it, get it out in the open so it can be debated. Learning is a lifelong experience.

 

Certainly, there are good points to both makes . If IMZ had adopted some Dnepr innovations, i think the modern bikes would be even better than they are now.

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My apologies if any of my posts appear to be aimed at you personally. You will find there is a scale of ownership in the East European bike ownership world, similar but not quite the same as the one hat exists in the Harley world. Some owners are genuine enthusiasts and some are in it for the Kudos of running an 'unusual' bike . There are people ( keep reading forums and you will get the drift) who will embellish facts and promote fables about the bikes. To what ends, I do not know but they are usually new to the scene and have bought new model Urals. To date, you are certainly not one of these people, just someone who is learning by intelligent research and debate and I do not believe I have misquoted you in any way or attributed anything to you that you have not directly posted.

This forum exists to help, inform and allow like minded souls to communicate and is actually a kindergarden of correctness compared to some other sites , long may it continue.

 

I prefer facts and like to help out with what I feel is good quality technical information where I am able but do not take offence if proved wrong and castigated for it. If I am wrong, I deserve it and one should be always willing to learn from mistakes. When poor information is posted, i can be a little blunt in correcting it, especially if that information is capable of damaging a bike or person if put into practice.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I've posted questions on a few different threads, and everyone has been very helpful. This is for Dneprlover or anyone else who has experience with these machines. I wasn't sure how to respond to a specific post, so here it is.

 

Being new to the world of Ural and Dnepr, I have a question. I've been told that the Dnepr, being made for military use, will run all day at 35-45 mph, but that normal highway speed of 55 could be damaging to either the engine or drive train. Normally, I'm quite comfortable at these lower speeds, but on the occasion where I would want to ride with others, I would need to be able to get to 55-60 for short periods of time. Can the Dnepr handle this? I could swing a Dnepr right about now, but there are precious few Urals in my neck of the woods, the few I've seen are pretty pricey, and I can't justify $10-15,000 for a new machine. I don't even spend that on my cars. I've seen a couple MT 16s advertised on this site at a price I could afford. Do you think a Dnepr would handle the task, or should I keep saving my money for a Ural?

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45 mph is realistic for an MT16 . I regularly ride mine at 50 ish but 60 is asking for trouble. A good MT11 or MT10-36 will be comfortable at 55 ish and will cruise faster on flat roads . My BMW r80 powered MT11 will cruise quite happily at 70 mph with sidecar gearing . If going on a long run, I change to solo gearing but don't travel above 80mph as I can not afford to pay speeding fines. Alll my bikes pull chairs . Forget the rumours you hear about drive systems, 2wd Dnepr diffs can be fragile but most parts are better designed and stronger than Ural , it's the engines that are the weak points . Also remember that brakes seemed to be an option from the factory and carefull riding has to take these into account.

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My own experience with a late 80s Dnepr was not a good one. I had problems with pistons and gugeon pins breaking, and had several cylinders develop cracks. This may have been partly due to the speeds that I rode it at but I also think there were some quality issues.

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Thanks for the info. When you say the engines are the weak part, what should I be expecting? I don't hot rod stuff, so I'm not worried about spinning a bearing or anything like that, but I've been told that these Dneprs can have stuff just break apart for no apparent reason. I like the slower ride, but occasionally would need to get up to 55 or so.

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Yup, there can be problems with faulty parts just letting go for no obvious reason. Usually due to poor quality control allowing corner cutting at the factory. (eg, self shortening pushrods or cams/ followers not heat treated correctly) . The best and sweetest engines are definitely the MT9 models but they have power and 6v electric limitations. MT10-36 and MT11 models have a reputation for snapping cranks ( I've snapped 2 )

Another problem seems to be the recent cheap availability of poor quality Chinese parts , one simply does not know what one is getting when ordering. A sorted bike with good parts is a joy to own and run, a bad one is a heart breaking PITA

Think AMF Harley Davidson for general quality.

In the UK, Dnepr's were officially imported for about 30 years and parts were relatively expensive through the importers so it was common to change engines for a different make, hence the proliferation of conversions over here. BMW , citroen and Diahatsu boxers, inline 4's and anything that would fit would be slotted in to keep the bikes running. I saw one in Belgium a few years ago that had an HD fitted across the frame. If you have spannering and engineering skills the opportunity is there to make a very good machine. Make no mistake, they are an enthusiasts bike, not a Jap fuel it and ride.

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I like R75/5 engine: alternator on crankshaft end , camshaft below crank-very good greasing.

 

People used harley wla engine and title for M-72 shasi 60 years ago (harley wla was much cheaper in soviet union then shaft boxers before Iron Curtain fell)

=home made 841 indian

 

post-soviet Enthusiasts use V4 air engine from ZAZ (yalta) and 2 cil lada (oka) 750cc

 

My choice is standard dnepr with trottle limit in my head.

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My choice is standard dnepr with trottle limit in my head.

Yes..I have an MT-11 that is very satisfying indeed..But, I don't let Anyone, nor Anything, dictate my speed...I go with what the Dnepr likes.. Makes for a Very dependable and enjoyable ride.

The Ural is definitely faster...I just have more Fun on the Dnepr.

The best for reliable and fast would be about any UJM hooked to a Russian or Chinese Tub...But, You wouldn't catch Me on the Thing.

RP

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